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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The little darlings » » How many Sucker Effects in your act? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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richards
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Brian Richards
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Perhaps I am wrong, but I've always thought that the definition of a sucker effect was a trick where the audience thinks it knows how the trick is done and then is ultimately fooled in the end. That is why I would put "Hippity Hop Rabbits," "Fraidy Cat Rabbit," "Sucker Die Box," and similar routines in that category. If I am wrong I humbly apologize!

Like anything, there are recommended guidelines, but there are always exceptions. The trick is to always think outside the box, try new things, and go with what works for you!!

Brian Richards
Sal Amangka
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I have 2 in my routine... "Fishbowl Mysteries" and "Splendo" which is a silk effect!

Chubster
Salamangka in Filipino means "Magic"
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Dennis Michael
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Quote:
On 2007-12-24 08:59, richards wrote:
Perhaps I am wrong, but I've always thought that the definition of a sucker effect was a trick where the audience thinks it knows how the trick is done and then is ultimately fooled in the end.


In the world of children entertainment, every kid knows how every trick is done. Anytime this is not believed, just ask them and they will tell you how it's done. I know you know this Brian, so I was trying to separate the effects that would embarrass from those which are group suprises. Those that make individuals look "foolish" or "bad" to should be considered sucker effects.

For instant, the topsy turvey crayons. If the eorror occurs on you it is fine, if it occurs on the child assistant then they may feel frustrated or embarrassed, especially in front of the whole audience. Whereas the hippy hop rabbits fools everyone with a suprise ending. It is not an individual embarassment but magic that does the change.

If we as entertainers can define what behaviors are acceptiable and which ones aren't then we can categorize those effects which will be OK and those which we need to be concerned on how it is presented.

What we want to avoid is grouping routines in a specific group and say do not do any sucker effects. It might prevent some very good routines from NOT being performed such as the Hippy Hop Rabbits, Die Box, and others.

I hope this makes sense.
Dennis Michael
richards
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Brian Richards
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Dennis:

Kids definitely know everything and they've also "seen it before," even if you invented the trick and are performing it for the first time. Ha Ha!

For what it's worth, this is out of "The Encyclopedia Of Magic And Magicians" by T.A. Waters.

"Sucker Effects
There are two basic kinds of such routines: (a) those in which the performer seems to inadvertently reveal the working method, and (b) those in which the performer apparently shows how the effect is accomplished, only to mystify the audience again at the conclusion."

It also says that in Great Britain, sucker effects are sometimes referred to as "Up The Garden Path routines." And...like we've been talking about, it agrees that these routines can alienate our audience unless they are delivered with an exceptionally pleasing personality. Again, there are always exceptions.

What you described is something that I often refer to as the "Volunteer In Trouble." (it works for the magician, but not the volunteer.) I try to stay away from these routines, unless I know that I am getting a good sport, like the principal of a school, someone that is a joker, etc... I prefer to do a routine that is the "Performer In Trouble." (It works for the volunteer, but not the magician. It gets stronger laughs at least for me and fits well with my personality and style.

I hope I am not splitting hairs. I just want to make sure that my understanding of terms in this wonderful business are accurate. MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Brian
Steven True
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I am sorry it took me so long to respond to all the posts. Lots of things got in the way. Thank you all for your posts. They had some great information and tips. I was thinking like Brian Richards in defintion of sucker effect. Thank you Dennis for clearing up that part.
I got out of magic for so long and getting back into the performing part of it is a lot tougher this time around. Back in the time I was performing a lot I had a very nice and extremley helpful person to help me with my act. His name was John Zweers. He pasted away a year or so ago. I am so glad that we have the Café' to come to for help and advice. I really want to make this new show the best I ca put together. It is only thye best that I want to present to the public,way to many "magicians" out there. Anyway thank you all and I hope it will be ok to contact some of you for help with this endeavor. It means a lot to me.

Thank you
Steven
btedeski
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I use several sucker effects, but I always turn out to be the sucker.... Not the kids.

"What did I do wrong this time?" Never "You #$&# that one up"
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Bill Tedeski
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magic4u02
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I try and do that myself when I can. For example I do Confusing Crayons in such a way that the child always gets it right and I am the one getting it wrong. It is the child who helps me to finally get it right by using some of their own magic. I still get the laughs and comedy and interaction I want, but the kid feels empowered now.

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Tony Chris
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This question has always been a topic for debate. I personally do only one in my regular children's birhtday party shows (Hippity hop rabbit type effect) and it seems to be enough. There are just so many fantastic childrens magic effects out on the market including our original routines, tricks and adaptations that I just don'e see any reason to do more than one sucker type of effect. I also know a few magicians who don't perform any sucker routines so there really is no right or wrong answer here. I could see getting away with two per performance if presented tactfully but for me one is enough.

To each their own though. Just make em laugh, that's all that matters!

Zany Zack
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Dennis Michael
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Agreed that the definition of "Sucker" effect needs more redefining, because to say "Hippy Hop Rabbits" is a "sucker" effect and shouldn't be used, to me, is in error. There are several "Turn it Around" effects that have many years of behind it and carved themselves as great routines for children. Many are classic routine ans still used today as they were 60-100 years ago. We just don't toss them because some one has defined them as a "sucker trick".

What needs to be done is redefine "sucker effect" so it can be understood by all.

Hmm.."sucker" is singlar: "A person easily cheated, deceived, or imposed upon."

http://www.cardmsg.com/techniques/magic-glossary.html defines it as:
Sucker Trick: A trick in which the magician lets the audience believe that they have worked out how the trick is done or that they have seen the magician make a mistake. The he proves them wrong at the end.
(This is related to cards.)

Another Definition is: a person who is gullible and easy to take advantage of. [syn: chump, fool, gull, mark, patsy, fall guy, schlemiel, shlemiel, soft touch, mug]

Could we say then, if an individual is made to look foolish or intentionally embarrassed by a routine where that individual is proven wrong in front his peers, qualifies as a "sucker effect"

When a group is lead down a path, only to realize, that path leads to a different outcome is not considered a sucker effect.

What would be nice, is knowing the difference is what routines are acceptable to perform and which ones to avoid. There are so many good routines like the Hippy Hop Rabbits, Egg Bag, Fraidy Cat Rabbit, What's Next, and many more would be considered routines to avoid if they are labeled "Sucker Effects". These are tried and true classics and what they all have in common is they work best on the whole audience, not an individual.

No matter what is written here, "To each their own though. Just make em laugh, that's all that matters!" is more powerful answer than the definition of a sucker effect.

On the other hand, am I just "getting to old" to change my ways? I truly believe the classics will still be around for many years because they are all new to every new group of children. And still have that wonderful appeal they had many years ago.
Dennis Michael
Experimentalist
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Ginn's "Purple Orange Eater" has a sucker element, but it's brief and dissolves into the story you are telling.

I do it 2nd in the show as a way to help gently establish that I'm in charge.

Actually, the first 10 minutes of my kid show is designed to establish my dominance in a way that creates no resentment.
A sucker trick that doesn't make anyone feel stupid is part of that process.
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