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John F New user 35 Posts |
Hello,
I would like to know what coin effects you would think highly enough of to call a miracle? I've never really seen or performed a good coin effect or routine (with the exception of one, which I'll mention in a moment), so I'm a little discouraged about putting more time and money into coins then I do. I've only ever seen and performed one real coin miracle. It is called the "Penny Change", and to me is a real world class miracle. What happens is you show two coins, a Penny and a five pence piece at the fingertips of both hands. You have the spectator hold their hand out palm down and you hold the coins under their hand, they name any one of the coins. Lets say they name the Penny (free choice). You state, "I'll show you something amazing with the Penny". You have them hold onto the 5p as tightly as possible in their fist and you place the Penny on the back of their hand. You show both hands completely empty and then reach into your pocket for a pen. You then tap the Penny with the pen and it instantly and visibly changes into the 5p right on the back of their hand. They then open their fist and there's the Penny. You leave everything on their outstreched hand. Everything can now be examined, including the pen. When I first saw this in my favourite magic shop I felt that moment of astonishment like I never felt it before. I had already brought a load of stuff and had little money left, but I had to have that. I brought it with the last of my money. I've done this to many people with the best reactions ever. I've had people completely change their state of mind and react in a way the don't usually act in front of their friends (the astonishment takes them over). They scream, they say in a high pitched voice, "That's the best trick I've ever seen". I've had people nearly jump out of their skin. It has everything a good trick should have, and more. It's quick, simple and easy to follow. It has a definite plot (coin transposition, the coins change places under impossible conditions), and a certain and startling climax. Bounus qualities include, It happens close-up right before their very eyes, everything happens in their hands. It's visual (the coin on the back of their hand changes visibly). It's practically self-working, no difficult moves and no fishy moves. No uneccessary actions or bogus gestures, et. All is examineable (your left completely clean). What more can you ask? The only thing one could say is a disadvantage is the fact it uses a gimmick here and there (you are still left clean at the end though) so if you don't have it with you, you can perform it. You also have to fork out for the gimmick(s), they will last a lifetime though. It can only astonish and enetertain one person at a time, but it can amuse and amaze others standing close by too. If you are ok with the so-called "bad" points then you have an almost perfect real world class miracle IMO. Anyway, I would like to hear what you think are real world class miracles, and ones your spectator(s) would agree on as well? Like I said, I've never even seen any other coin effect that comes close to this, I'm not saying there aren't any other/better coin effects out there, it's just I haven't seen or heard of any. Maybe you can enlighten me. Are there any coin miracles you would recommend? Method is not important, only the effect. If the miracle you recommed means sleight-of-hand then that's fine. I can spend hours practicing coin sleights. It just doesen't pay off IMO, the sleight-of-hand "Coins Thru Table" routines and "Matrix" routines that took me months to get down just don't create the astonishment I want to create. As far as presentation goes I give more time and thought to this then methods (not to say that whatever method I use will be sloppy, it's just as important to make the method completely invisible) but I woulden't go as far as to say "Presentation is everything". Any coin miracles you would like to share may be of any method but must appear to be with regular coins (impromptu miracles preferred but any good set routines are welcome) and must not use any fishy made-for-the-job props, no breass objects. They do have their place in magic but it is not what I'm looking for, thanks. Any bank note miracles or miracles that use both coins and bank notes are welcome. Also any miracles that use ordinary objects as well a coin or coins, note or notes or any of the items combined. Nothing confusing though. Thank you, John Fitzgerald. |
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EvanAndrews Regular user California 128 Posts |
Miracles with coins....Pretty much any coin effect is awesome!!! Coin rock!!! I would have to say one of my favorites is 3-Fly or a Jumbo Coin Production.
????.....Yeah
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chatman2000 New user 8 Posts |
Well, there are a lot of great coin effects out there. Some of my personal favourites are from Jay Sankey's Revolutionary Coin Magic. That tape, in my opinion, has so many great, effective coin effects that show true miracles. And hey, if you like gimmicked coin effects to make it easier, there are some of them on there too. It has so many great coin effects, like Mr. Clean Coins Across, several productions, and such a wide variety of effects that I would recommend the tape if you want miracles performed. And if you don't think they're miracles, well, okay. I personally think the effects (Or most of them, anyway--not all) are golden.
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joseph Eternal Order Please ignore my 17407 Posts |
Consider effects like Roth's Chink a Chink, and what must go through a spectator's mind as to how the coins travel to one corner of the mat. Ammar's Shadow Coins produce a shocking effect right on the floor. These never fail to astonish laymen.
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Einstein)...
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THE REAL ALAN RORRISON New user 4 Posts |
i have a simple effect people love which has a coin matrix format but not methode, it gos like this: i borow a coin and card (card is optional if no one has any i use my own or a credit card etc.) then i get them to sign the coin and i flip it up and catch it then i wave the card over the hand with the coin init and it has vanished i then wave the card back over and its there again with signature intact! its a simple trick with no gimmicks but it gets a great reaction
THE REAL ALAN RORRISON |
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Curtis Kam V.I.P. same as you, plus 3 and enough to make 3498 Posts |
Congratulations on your success with the effect, John, I would suggest that you take advantage of the moment, and try to identify what it is that makes the effect play so strongly for you.
Certainly, you have picked a good effect. It has three of the elements of miracles in it, i.e. it happens in the hands of the partcipants, what happens is (partly at least)at the direction of the participants, and it is also very visual. A rare combination, however, everything can be improved, can't it? Since the use of a gimmick is no problem, have you considered using a Raven instead of a pen? Then the change happens with just a wave of your hand, rather than "a tap of your pen", which somehow doesn't sound quite as magical. Note that ultimately, the effect you described is a transposition. Such effects can be confusing (not much chance here, if one coin is always in sight) and the effect contains inherent clues to the method (e.g. if the coins are about the same size, some sort of exchange must be involved) In general, the simpler transportation of a coin or a ball into or out of a person's hand will be more effective than two objects changing places. Thus, the effect you describe could be bettered by a one-coin presentation. (Not that the magic stores carry one yet, but...) Gotta run. But these are two ways that your ideal effect might be made better. Keep searching. After all, what are you going to do for an encore?
Is THAT a PALMS OF STEEL 5 Banner I see? YARRRRGH! Please visit The Magic Bakery
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KyleHarnish New user Southern California 51 Posts |
Any thing that Cirtus Kam does is a mirical. If you see his videos you will see what I am talking about.....MY GOSH...he is great!
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Geoff Latta Regular user New York 158 Posts |
Curtis, you might know; is this "Fisting C/S" with a shim shell and a magnetic pen? Sounds like it.
Best, Geoff
"There is a thin line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line." --Oscar Levant
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John F New user 35 Posts |
Thank you Curtis,
First of all I haven't performed the effect for quite some time. I lost one of the gimmicks and haven't been to my dealer for a while. I'm thinking about buying a new one. You mention the "Raven" in place of a pen. IMO the pen has the better effect because it's thin and black. It being thin doesn't mask the coin and the pen being black doesn't distract them away from the coin, the coin remains in sight all the time and they see it change from a deep copper colour to a shiny silver coluor, it the most visual peice of magic I've ever seen. It looks so perfect the way it is, it looks impossible. The pen that comes with it is perfect, aside from the two qualities above it's a common pen here in th U.K. As for the handling this would mean going near the body after placing the coins in the spectators hand. You woulden't be able to show your hands cleanly empty at this point. A "Raven" would be good but the coin leaves their sight, it's only for a second but it makes a difference IMO. I could experiment with both and see what the differences are, et. And I know I said method isn't an issue but a "Raven" would be an extra £25.00p and would mean more props to set up and carry. Another thing is that the "Raven" has been exposed on TV here, again, it's no big deal but it's a nother chink in the armour IMO (they only vanished a coin so what I use it for shoulden't arouse suspicion for thoses who did see the MM and do remeber the device). What you mention is basically the same thing as changing a coin on a spectators palm instead of vanishing it with the "Raven". Several advantages are that one, it eliminates an extra prop as far as the spectator can see. Which means that I will get the credit for doing the magic and not the pen. It also means I never touch them which is another advantage. The magic will be soley based on the coins, nothing else for the spec to think about afterwards, ("Hmm, how did the coin change when the pen touched it?). With the "Raven" it will be, "He never even touche me or the coins". The latter is a statement which burns the effect into their mind for an everlasting effect. Where as the former is more of a question, as if their trying to figure out a puzzle. Yet another advantage is that it isn't a pakcet trick, if done with the "Raven", not everyone will be doing it. Well, not as much as the "Penny Change". It's just that little more unique. The effect of the "Raven" is much more simple in concept ("Why go into my pocket for a pen when I can just do a magical gesture and the magic happens?") from the specs POV cleaner in the near end (vital part) of the effect. It completely eliminates one of the failing points of the pen method. After thinking about it, I think the "Raven" has as many, if not more advantages to the pen. The only real way of knowing is to experiment with both and study the effect and the reactions of the spectator. Thank you for that wonderful idea Curtis, I really appreciate it. Take care, John. |
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Chris "linkster" Watson Special user England 564 Posts |
Hi John,
There are lots of coin effects which in my opinion come across as miracles to the spectator. Separating them into gimmicked and un-gimmicked I would say my favourites are: Gimmicked: Coin in bottle - an old classic but done well this slays people. (Medium Skill required) Trio/ Misty like a dream by Gary Kurtz - Almost feels strange to put this in a gimmicked section considering the amount of sleight of hand this uses...coins appear, dissapear, jump from hand to hand, change and vanish...I had been studying coin magic for several years when I saw this performed it fooled me completely (lots of skill time/ effort required) Newyork Spellbound - a Curtis Kam special visually stunning and baffling!! (Lots of Skill/ time effort required) Coin unique - can be used to make a coin penetrate through a spectators hand (my version is £1 and 1p)(requires nerve but not too difficult) Cigarette through coin - has been exposed on MM but most people still don't know the secret. ( basic level required to do a switch, worth a lot of practice to develop a strong routine though) Un-gimmicked: Hellbound spellbound- Chris Kenners spellbound routine where a coin changes from copper to silver then in to two silvers then as a final kick two coppers to finish!! And yes it is ungimmicked... this is my all time favourite routine...well sharing top spot with... Trio/ misty like a dream (see above)(difficult routine but worth every minute...hour...decade to master) Muscle pass - visually this is one of the most stunning things to do with a coin. ( This varies on the person as to how difficult it is...I was lucky!!) Coins across/ three fly - lots of versions stunning magic to watch though. ( medium difficulty on most) I am a big fan of Chris Kenner and his book out of control (featuring Hellbound spellbound) and Gary Kurtz - Unexplainable acts (book) and Creaing magic (video). If you can't perform miracles after learning from those...the only other sugestion would be joining Harry Potter at Hogwarts!!! Hope this helps Chris |
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Platt Inner circle New York 2012 Posts |
John, I'd agree that most coin effects don't come across as miracles. Most, IMHO come across as well done slight of hand. And if you break out the CSB sets or even the pence you use in the transposition effect, people are going to wonder why. For a normal guy doing a trick to friends, it's just not natural. My favorite simple miracle that can't be explained with slight of hand or "it must be a tricky coin" is "The Vanishing Nickel." - Sleeves are rolled up, you hold the nickel out, your hand is an island. There's nowhere for the nickel to go. Yet it goes. Fingers spread wide. Shown on both sides. You then bring it back it the same ultra-clean fashion. The best trick Doug Henning ever performed. Miraculous.
Sugar Rush is here! Freakishly visual magic. http://www.plattmagic.com
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Doug McKenzie Veteran user New York City 326 Posts |
Shadow coins ... the way Chris Kenner and Homer Liwag perform it. Best magic I have ever seen in my life.
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magicbear New user Ewa Beach, Hawaii 70 Posts |
David Roth's Coin and Glass Through the Table. You have to do it sitting down, but no gimmicks and you can do it with every day items, a paper napkin and a small straight sided glass. I usually lead up to it with a couple of other coin effects, coins across and/or coins through the table. Those two effects when done well are minor miracles by themselves. Of course, any thinking person who sees a coin miracle is going to think "trick coin" at some point and if that hangs you up, you can always pass out the coins for inspection. But, in my experience, when they see the glass and coin go through the table they are absolutely blown away and as soon as you leave the room they are checking out the table with an awed look on their faces.
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Stanyon Inner circle Landrum, S.C. by way of Chicago 3433 Posts |
David Roth's - "Hanging Coins"
Paul Harris' - "PDQ Coins Across" Al Schneider's - "MATRIX" Cheers!
Stanyon
aka Steve Taylor "Every move a move!" "If you've enjoyed my performance half as much as I've enjoyed performing for you, then you've enjoyed it twice as much as me!" |
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iSawThat Regular user The Ivory Tower 188 Posts |
i agree very much with what John F says. I think a lot of coin routines are more miraculous to magicians than to laymen, since we can appreciate just how difficult it is to have a clean vanish or convincing false transfer. Because of that, i think that many many coin routines (3 fly included) that are done in our own hands have very little astonishment factor: think about it, you're a magician, you're supposed to be able to do these things. Like a surgeon gets little amazement for an operation that went successfully, despite how difficult it really was. Thus, I feel that coin magic HAS to be in the spectator's hands for it to amaze, to strike a chord deeper. the raven is especially useful for this, as is the pen. Very few coin routines are around that can have the potential to cause this much astonishment. People are speechless after they've had a coin vanish/change on their hand without you touching it, especially since they're conditioned to think that the hand-waving that we do is merely cosmetic. Keep the miracles coming, i'm interested to practice those that really kill too...too often have i spent time on difficult routines that kill magicians but elicit yawns from lay people.
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jerdunn Inner circle 1735 Posts |
Just as an aside, there's a variation of John's routine in which you place a nickel on the back of a spectator's outstretched hand and say you'll cause it to penetrate.
You tap the nickel with a pen, but the trick doesn't quite work right. Only four cents, not five, penetrate her hand. That is, four copper Pennies are seen to drop through the spectator's hand, while the nickel on top is now a single Penny! I can't remember whose trick this is -- John Cornelius? Scotty York? Maybe Geoff or Curtis will know. Jerry |
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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
If many coin routines that are done in our own hands have very little astonishment factor, than you can say the same for many card routines that are done in our own hands, many rope routines that are done in our hands, etc. There's nothing INHERENTLY less magical about effects with coins than with other objects. I perform one coin routine I'd put up against ANY card routine, ANY rope routine, etc. Why? Not because coins are INHERENTLY better than cards or ropes, but because of the response I receive with this particular routine.
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John F New user 35 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-02-27 08:13, Chris "linkster" Watson wrote: Hello, I agree with most of what you've said, but would like to give my opinion of a little bit of what you've said. "Coin Unque" is probably the trick that almost every dabbler in magic owns. This puts me off buying it sometims because just anyone can buy it and do it. I've been in magic shops countless times when a typical pub type geezer would walk in and ask for the £1 & a Penny trick. I've heard that this paticular thing has a lot of uses and there are probably ways to use it that are different than the routines that come with the instuctions. "Cigarette Through £1 coin" is a wonderful peice of magic but means nothing without proper constuction and presentation. I think Derren Brown's ideas on switching the coin are just fantastic. Also, the MM gave away a single sided coin, a Gibson £1 has twos sides so you can cleanly show both sides before and after the penertration. With Derren's construction ideas this is a master piece. Paul Zennon's construction of the effect was quite good, he had a gimmicked 10p, anyone know what and where this type of gimmickis from/is? "Muscle Pass", I only use our currency so you try the "Muscle Pass" with a 10p and see what it looks like. 2p's are copper so it woulden't look as effective. £2's are too thick, and who'll lend a magician a £2 anyway. I also don't want anything I do to look like manipulations. Even though I've masterd the "One-Handed Shuffle" and "Instant Replay/Simple Switch" and other flourishes like the "Coin Roll" on both hands at the same time, et., I'll never use them in performance. Thanks. John. |
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Reg Rozee Special user Vancouver, Canada 592 Posts |
I don't do a lot of coin magic but one I do that has always gotten me that moment of astonishment is my version of the "Alchemist's Phantasy". After the first two changes in your own hand, the final change to a gold coin in the spectators hand just seems to push them over the edge. There is something about a "real gold coin!" (a phrase almost all of them use) that really seems to excite people.
-bigwolf {*}
Reality is what doesn't go away when you stop believing in it. -Phillip K. Dick
Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes? -Chico Marx |
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iSawThat Regular user The Ivory Tower 188 Posts |
The thing is, before I got into magic i was never very impressed with coin tricks, and I've got many friends who still aren't. It's something to do with it being too conceivable that coins can be hidden easily in our hands, and even though a clean vanish is shown, people always come up with the throw-away "it's up his sleeve" a lot easier than they do when it comes to card tricks. I'd like to hear more about your one coin routine Larry, i've been searching for a good one myself. Don't get me wrong, I love PERFORMING coin tricks, they pack a lot smaller than cards or anything else, and the opportunities for impromptu performances are infinite, it's just that i find that my strongest reactions don't come from coin tricks. Even watching the masters themselves, (eg David Roth on his Expert Coin Magic Made Easy videos) I appreciate their natural handling more than I do the effects. Maybe it's just me...
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