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Dr Spektor
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Servant: "No no... not the nose in the book!!!!"

Yosemite Sam: "Yeah... the nose in the book...."

SLAM
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
Yannou
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Mindpunisher

The problem is not with people who believe cold reading is for real, it's with people like Edwards making them believe it's real. I couldn't care less if my someone thinks it's really possible to talk to the dead, but my conscience forbids me to take advantage of such a person. Apparently, not everyone has a functional conscience. Taking advantage of peoples irrational believes is what I, and many others, find objectionable, not the irrational believes themselves.
mindpunisher
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I don't think Edwards makes them do anything. I can't see a problem. If it wasn't Edwards it would be someone else they would go and see. Those people don't feel or believe they are being taken advantage of. "irrational beliefs" who are you to say someone else's beliefs are irrational or need rescuing. Its this pompus overblown sense of self importance I find offensive. Most likely over compensating for being socially inept.

I know many people who believe. And really no one can prove that they are wrong to believe. Knowing a few sleights and theatrical mechanics does not elevate anyone to the position of judging or saving others from their own "irrational beliefs".

You obviously don't have a conscience about berating others and their beliefs. And from what I've heard you will find no evidence of pre-show work at any Edward's "shows".

This isn't about protecting others. Its about showing your own pseudo superiority. Which to my mind is much more of a "irrational belief".
Jim Reynolds
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Nothing wrong with having our own "irrational beliefs".

But when a magician decides to butcher the art of mentalism to "debunk" mediums like John Edward, then you are dealing with a moron.

For or against?

;)
mindpunisher
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Moron and magician often go together unfortunately. No point being against it does no good. However lets expose them for what they truly are not saviours but ***s.
psychicturtle
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I will happily berate Jon Edwards, I have seen some terrible stuff that he has done (such as insisting that someone was connected very strongly to hunting, and when being told, no, just continually insisting. He looked like a total d*ck, and it was hideously offensive to the memory of the deceased person he claimed to be in touch with - if this complete miss, and the person arguing with him can make it to air, what did they cut???!!)

I used to be a 'medium', then I learnt better (BEFORE I was a magician, Mindpunisher...).

If no one tries to advance our societies beliefs by teaching, then we will never progress as a species. If someone had not challenged the idea that the world was flat, we would still think it was so.

Should we accept beliefs just because we want to believe them, or do we have a responsibility to ourselves and the rest of humanity to try and pursue the truth?

No one who has ever really looked into it seriously has found a real medium. Houdini was not making it up when he said that all he could find were frauds, as all he found were frauds. There is a reason for that.

If you believe in mediumship, the slightest hits are taken as proof, and the masses of misses are ignored. This is just how it is. I deluded myself and convinced a lot of people that I was talking to their dead relatives. They believed me. I believed me. But I realised one day (through a series of events that I will not bother to go into here) that it was all my own imagination, so how do I explain all the hits?
Easy, everyone I ever did a communication for ignored any misses, and I was able to make them disappear as well. People do not go to psychics to test them, they go to hear what they want to hear.

So I will happily disagree with and voice my opposition to the entire spirtualist movement. Just as I will with anyone who thinks the world is flat.

Just so you know, I do believe that there are energies around us that we do not understand and have yet to harness, but I do not believe that those energies have anything at all to do with dead people.
mindpunisher
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Psychic turtle your missing the point. These are your views your beliefs. The people who believe really don't care what you think. They don't need you or anyone to save them.

I am an athiest do I come on here and berate religeous believers? Yet there are practices much more rediculous and potentially harming going on in conventional churches everyday. Yet any mention of anti conventional religeon on here and it disappears almost immediately. Yes in my opinion they are just as guilty or irrational as any medium.

How can you be sure the energy from people don't continue after death? The fact is no one can say one way or another.

And really I think the rest of humanity will survive without a few jumped up magicians showing off or getting into the limelight because they can't make it as performers. Pompus over inflated egos compensating for some personal inadequecy comes to mind.

And just like you say its all in your imagination. Just like your newest delusion that you are some kind of saviour. Like most people you just swapped one delusion for another.
mota
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"And really I think the rest of humanity will survive without a few jumped up magicians showing off or getting into the limelight because they can't make it as performers. Pompus over inflated egos compensating for some personal inadequecy comes to mind.

And just like you say its all in your imagination. Just like your newest delusion that you are some kind of saviour. Like most people you just swapped one delusion for another."

Amen mindpunisher.
psychicturtle
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Who's some kind of saviour? Where did I say that? You make a tremendous amount of assumptions mindpunisher. Wrong assumptions at that. That was an offensive one.

I have spent many hours debating religion and telling anyone who wants to know my opinion that religion is great until it becomes 'organised'.

Someone asked about Jon Edwards, I replied. I am entitled to my opinon as you are entitled to yours. I base my opinon of spritualism on years of knowledge and experience on both sides, and my knowledge, experience and qualifications in psychology. It's not just guessing. My views and beliefs on this matter are much more than that. I explained how so many believed in what I did, that applies to all mediums. There is a lot of evidence to suggest that mediumship is fake (for example, the huge amount of mediums that have been exposed as being fake), but still no evidence to suggest that it may be real...(heresay and conjecture are not evidence, Houdini's research is).

Going by your standards, it would seem that no one is good enough to be a teacher of any kind, as all beliefs are just beliefs unless you believe the evidence presented...
Dr Spektor
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The best person to deal with this is Nyarlathotep, the Grand Charlatan and Crawling Chaos. I'll give him a ring.
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
psychicturtle
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I just re-read my post. No where did I claim to be some kind of saviour Mindpunisher. I don't know HOW you read that into it. Very odd.

By the way, you seem to be the one trying to be the saviour, protecting all those who believe in mediumship from having their beliefs questioned, by berateing all those with are opposed to the movement and those involved.
Are you seeing the irony here yet?
mindpunisher
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Psychic turtle: reread my posts again. you set yourself up as some athority. "a teacher" your words. Teaching who?

Again you fail to miss the whole point. You have your beliefs and others have theirs. You seem to believe that you are superior to those that "need saving".

Trust me they don't need saving. As for passing over into spirit world or heaven then you will find that you are way out numbered since the vast majority of the world population believes in such a thing.

You are deluded to think your beliefs are somehow more valid than the majority of humanity. And that you are some kind of teacher.

It just goes to illustrate my earlier point about jumped up deluded magicians.

You are illustrating my point better than I ever could. I thankyou for saving me the time and thought.

I have re read your posts you imply that your beliefs are some how more valid and that the likes of John edwards needs to be exposed.
psychicturtle
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Quote:
On 2007-12-23 20:07, mota wrote:
Your "opinions" about psychic phenomenon stop where your wallet starts. Like the hypocrite Banacheck you have no problem condemning such phenomenon while selling shows and at least one product that profit from that belief.

Mealy-mouth disclaimers aside, if people didn't believe in psychic phenomenon there wouldn't be any market for anything you do except card tricks.

Also, to refer to Houdini's work as "research" indicates how completely clueless you are about what research is. Unless, like your "experience as a medium" you also have experience as a scientific researcher...both are equally believable based on your posts.


Ok, now you are also making massive assumptions that are WRONG. You know nothing about my shows, and how I advertise and promote myself. How do I profit from a belief in mediumship when I specifically say that I am not psychic, and none of the pieces I do have ever have anything to do with contacting the dead? In what way is that even remotely connected to mediumship?

I accept that I should not have referred to Houdini's experiences as research, fair enough. But the rest of what you wrote was just ignorant of who I am and how I market myself and my abilites.

You are free to disbelieve anything I claim about myself, as is anyone on here. I don't care if you don't believe that I was a medium for 3 years or that I have an A-level in psychology. If your arguments are just going to disintegrate into claiming that I'm not what I say I am, well good luck to you. Pretty cheap though.
psychicturtle
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Quote:
On 2007-12-23 20:22, mindpunisher wrote:
Psychic turtle: reread my posts again. you set yourself up as some athority. "a teacher" your words. Teaching who?

Again you fail to miss the whole point. You have your beliefs and others have theirs. You seem to believe that you are superior to those that "need saving".


Teaching who? Those who ask me, and want to know what I know about it. No one else.
'seem to' believe? Exactly. An assumption of yours.
Quote:
Trust me they don't need saving. As for passing over into spirit world or heaven then you will find that you are way out numbered since the vast majority of the world population believes in such a thing.

and again you show your outright ignorance with such a stupid statement. You know nothing of my beliefs of the afterlife (and I do believe in the afterlife).
Quote:
You are deluded to think your beliefs are somehow more valid than the majority of humanity. And that you are some kind of teacher.

People have paid me to teach them bass guitar, people have paid me to learn card magic. I am a teacher, everyone is, and I am learning a lot about how people can make massively wrong assumptions from you.
No where did I say that my beliefs were more valid than the majority of humanity. Of course, your statement is based on the assumption that the majority of humanity believes in mediumship. I do not know if this is true or not. Do you know? for a fact?

Quote:
I have re read your posts you imply that your beliefs are some how more valid and that the likes of John edwards needs to be exposed.

If I want to learn about how to fix cars, I ask a mechanic. If someone wants to know about spirtual mediumship they are best of talking to people who claim to do it, and also to those who used to do it but don't any more, than to those who have no experience of it. Yes, my opinion of the subject is more valid than the opinion of someone who has never done it, never known any mediums, and has no experience of it.

If you want your car fixed, do you go to your mechanic, or someone with no experience? Exactly. The mechanic's experience and knowledge does indeed make his/her opinion more valid.

I have made my points, and I have better things to do. Respond all you want, I'm not going to bother responding to you. I am stunned at the outright ignorant assumptions being made about me here.
mota
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In addition to your posts you bill yourself as a "psychological illusionist". You actually are pretty clear how you represent and promote yourself by your posts, your web page, and your myspace page. It is curious that though you seem skeptical you still post your sign as Leo...but Leo's are like that.

Your mature age of 27 and "A" grade in psychology are impressive. I got a niece that got those grades in psychology...she is sweet but...

And no, I don't believe for a second you were a medium...but that is unsolvable so that is where that stands.

Still, anyone that likes the 360 and professional wrestling can't be all bad. The rest of your interests also seem consistent for your age.
John Nesbit
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Speaking of James Randi. Some might find this interesting. I stumbled onto it the other day. It is a radio interview from "Beyond Reality Radio". With the men from TAPS ("Ghost Hunters" on the Sci-Fi Channel,which aired recently), on a website called Planet Paranormal !
This is a rare opportunity to hear him concede and fudge a little. Listen and let it play through. Notice how they handle him. He seemed like he wanted to "brawl" at first. But they disarmed him very nicely. They flattered him a lot, but Jason and Grant Do believe in the survival of the soul after death. Even though James Randi still [claims] that he does not. Either way, it was intriguing to have him be such an amicable guest on a supernatural talk show, hosted by The Ghost Hunters. Makes you wonder. Smile


http://www.planetparanormal.com/index.ph......temid=38
nucinud
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John Edward, belongs in jail with Sylvia Brown. They give people false hope and take their money. It is one thing to be a psychic entertainer, but to lead people on with out and out lies, come on, this should be a crime. Case after case Sylvia Brown has been proven wrong yet she still gets away with her crap. What cracks me up, is that when an article appeared in Long Island Newsday about John Edward, they took a survey about psychics. Over 63% of the people believe he is real. Houdini wanted to believe that you could contact the dead. He was disappointed. We should tell the truth about these scam artists.
"We are what we pretend to be" Kurt Vonnegut, jr.



Now U C It Now U Don't

Harry Mandel

www.mandelmagic.com
Dr Spektor
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"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
John Nesbit
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Wow ! Talk about a blast from the past ! I remember those old episodes from the 60's.
They were so slick looking back then. I especially love the artwork for the closing credits on that youtube link. Captain Scarlet and The Mysterons. I haven't seen or heard of that since around 1967. What a rush !
The theme song is so well done. Those other clips are something to watch too.
(Even though they were British, they spoke in an American accent. Clever marketing, these days that wouldn't be done).
Very cool Bruce.
Thank you.

This one is hilarious, (fan made).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aen_A_urAnw&feature=related
Jay Are
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This %#*$&! show makes me angrier than John Edward...

http://www.aetv.com/paranormal-state/

Criss Angel and Randi need to go after this guy...
xxx
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