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ralphwaldoemerson
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Since the initial post simply asked "for or against," I say against. I've been behind the scenes with another television medium and actually seen him cheating. IMO there are enough similarities between Edwards and Van Pragh in the way they handle themselves on camera that I am very suspicious of Edwards. Beyond my opinion that Edwards is probably a fraud, I also believe that making entertainment out of other people's personal grief is wrong. Apparently stating a personal opinion against Edwards is enough to get you labeled a bigot or an a**e on this thread, but that reveals more about the person hurling the insults than it does about those receiving them.
Nathan Alexander
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I'm not a fan of him. But if I knew HE knew he was a fraud (I can't judge his heart) I'd like him even less.
Dr Spektor
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If he doesn't know he is a fraud, he must be pretty stupid... and he isn't stupid.
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
Jim Reynolds
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Quote:
On 2007-12-24 17:17, nucinud wrote:
P.T Barnum was right!


Someone has a different opinion than yours and you reply with P.T. Barnum.

What class.

I just don't get this group of self-congratulatory magicians patting themselves on the back every time they mock someone's spiritual/religious beliefs. Their opinion becomes fact. It's either follow the Gospel according to Randi, or you are a sucker. Or worse, a scam artist that belongs in jail. No room for different beliefs.

Even if I may agree, this kind of bullying mindset is so off putting that it can't possible win many converts. In fact, it may have an opposite effect.
Tony Iacoviello
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Jim

Your not the only one. Smile

Tony
Joe Marotta
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Quote:
On 2007-12-24 16:31, Jim Reynolds wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-12-24 13:55, Joe Marotta wrote:
I think the 'disclaimer' that was flashed across the screen at the end of his show provides us with plenty of clues:

“The Producer has relied heavily on the contributions of John Edward and other third parties in the creation of this program, which has been produced for entertainment purposes only.

“The materials and opinions presented in this program by John Edward and other third parties, including statements, predictions, documents, photos and video footage, come solely from their respective third party sources, and are not the views, opinions and responsibility of the Producer and are not meant or intended to be a form of advice, instruction, suggestion, counsel or factual statement in any way whatsoever.”


Not sure what kind of clues you are picking up other than a producer (more likely their legal dept.) covering their behinds should someone sue the show - as opposed to John Edward. It's a pretty generic disclaimer that would probably be on many talk shows.



Hi Jim,
Using this disclaimer, I feel the Producer makes it very clear that the entire program was a lie and was presented for entertainment purposes only.

“other third parties” = someone who’s being paid to provide information. Don't you think this refers to pre-show work? Hired people asking questions and then recording the responses in writing or another format, videos of personal items, etc. Seems like an admission to it.

“For entertainment purposes only” = we are being paid to lie to you. The Psychic Network uses this disclaimer tag line too. I would not expect someone to tell me this phrase after they claim to have just presented very important (to me) words from a dear loved one who passed away. In my mind, it pretty much takes away their credibility.

“not meant or intended to be a form of advice... or factual statement in any way whatsoever.” = everything you’ve been watching is a lie, it’s not real. None of it is factual. "Joe, your father Leonard says he is so very proud of you. And I want you to know that you should not take this as a factual statement in any way."

Interesting to note that this disclaimer appeared on the screen for only one half second. I had to freeze the frame at just the right moment in order to be able to read it. Yes, in case someone sues them, they can claim that there was full disclosure that the program was indeed not based on fact but was for entertainment purposes only.

Joe
kinesis
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If, and it's a big if, John Edwards and Sylvia Browne et al could communicate with the dead why are they on second rate daytime TV shows? Consider how, if this were possible, it would change the world. People that have been murdered could pass on info on who murdered them. Scientists could explain theories taken to the grave. A dead relitive could end a feud over their last will and testement. These examples are but the tip of the iceberg. Does it happen? No! We see the same old tired faces telling the same old generalities to a handful of desperate people. No 9/11 revelations, no info on little lost Maddie. Sure, they'll tell us stuff we already knew but what use is that, it's only repeating info that's been gleaned or at best a lucky guess (even I can do good cold reading). Why is it that this extraordinary phenomenon of being able to communicate with people that have died remains tucked away in wee churches and on trash TV. Simple, nobody can (IMHO) communicate with the dead. People that claim they can are either self deluded or out there to exploit vunerable people giving them false hope and a warped sense of reality. People that deceive and prey on the vunerable for a quick buck are the lowest of the low. Even the Bible (I don't believe in the Bible) states many times to avoid spiritualists and mediums. Now my disclaimer - This of course is just my personal take o John Edwards and people like him. This not a personal dig at any member on The Café.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein






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John Nesbit
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Quote:
On 2007-12-24 23:33, Jim Reynolds wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-12-24 17:17, nucinud wrote:
P.T Barnum was right!


Someone has a different opinion than yours and you reply with P.T. Barnum.

What class.

I just don't get this group of self-congratulatory magicians patting themselves on the back every time they mock someone's spiritual/religious beliefs. Their opinion becomes fact. It's either follow the Gospel according to Randi, or you are a sucker. Or worse, a scam artist that belongs in jail. No room for different beliefs.

Even if I may agree, this kind of bullying mindset is so off putting that it can't possible win many converts. In fact, it may have an opposite effect.


I agree with Tony I.
Well put.
ralphwaldoemerson
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Tony, respect has to go both ways. What I see on this thread is the bizarro world version of what you describe. Several people pasted thet they're against Edwards, they said nothing about banning him, nothing against people who believe, and they were called bigots and told they had no right to express an opinion. The things you are calling bullying didn't come until later. In the meantime you seem to be implying that everybody who thinks Edwards is a fake, or who believes what he is doing is wrong is calling for his banishment or denouncing other religious views. That's just not the case.

Tony, I respect you. But the bullying isn't coming from the side you think it is. Or is it the case that we're allowed any opinion we want, but unless it aligns with your and Mindpunisher's orthodoxy we just shouldn't express it?
Tony Iacoviello
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Are you sure you mean me?

If you are commenting on the post John quoted above, that is not my post.
To be honest, I've said very little in this thread.

Happy Holidays Smile

Tony
bobser
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Yeah, it's dissappointing, but I'm afraid,good old Mr. Edwards does appear to be a sham. A good one of course, who, if we look ar the Steve Irwin debacle evening just as an example, will net Mr. Edwards around £250,000 (half a million U.S.).
He doesn't sleep too well I'm told?
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Robin DeWitt
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Not to belabor a point but the man's name is EDWARD not Edwards. Interesting that Sylvia's last name was correctly spelled with the additional "E".

Robin
I am the fakir, you....
<BR>Robin DeWitt
ralphwaldoemerson
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Tony, You're quite right. My apologies. Consider my postt directed to Jim.

And Kardor, thanks for the correction. Although if the presidential candidate started talking to the dead during a debate that would be pretty funny.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!
nucinud
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Quote:
On 2007-12-24 23:33, Jim Reynolds wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-12-24 17:17, nucinud wrote:
P.T Barnum was right!


Someone has a different opinion than yours and you reply with P.T. Barnum.

What class.

I just don't get this group of self-congratulatory magicians patting themselves on the back every time they mock someone's spiritual/religious beliefs. Their opinion becomes fact. It's either follow the Gospel according to Randi, or you are a sucker. Or worse, a scam artist that belongs in jail. No room for different beliefs.

Even if I may agree, this kind of bullying mindset is so off putting that it can't possible win many converts. In fact, it may have an opposite effect.


Calling John Edward a scam artist is not an opinion, it is fact! I am not trying to bully anyone. Knowing what we know, it surprises me that anyone would even defend him. Enough said. As for Slyvia Browne, she has been proven wrong many times. Peace.
"We are what we pretend to be" Kurt Vonnegut, jr.



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mindpunisher
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No one has proved Edward is a scam artist. Not that I am defending him. I just don't get it why magician's feel its their duty to protect others who really don't want to hear it.

If Edward is a scam artist then so are many religious leaders. So what? Who cares? I think the real problem here is the money he is making. (jealousy) Again personally I don't care. His followers don't either. And will not change their beliefs no matter what exposers try to do.

There is a deep human need for a large part of the population to have these beliefs. Edward serve's that need for many of them.

He is a very shrewd showman who perhaps even believes he is real. Who cares?

Stick to magic that's what your really qualified to do...I think its a travesty that many don't..

The real motivation behind this is a displaced sense of self importance. As is with all these professional sceptics. They are just frauds playing a role too.

The real truth is no one can say for sure that we cannot communicate with the dead. I have communicated with a few brain dead on here from time to time..
Tony Iacoviello
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MP

He has a point, "Knowing what we know, it surprises me that anyone would even defend him." How can one defend the guy when "we know" what a DL is (not that we can do one, but we know what it is)? And "we" have computers and access to Wiki, "we" know it all! Since "we" know it all, it is "our" obligation to correct those in this world who differ in opinion to us, as they need our help (wanted or not). So "we" will take every chance we get to educate them, like "we" do with the DL to our audiences. Because if they were able to think for themselves, they would be magicians, visit Wiki, and believe just as "we" do. The very concept of them thinking differently than "we" illustrates their mental inferiority to "we".

We convert

9.5


Ignore everything I just said, I think I had a bad stuffed mushroom.

Happy Holidays

Tony
Jim Reynolds
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Quote:
On 2007-12-25 15:10, ralphwaldoemerson wrote:
Tony, You're quite right. My apologies. Consider my postt directed to Jim.

And Kardor, thanks for the correction. Although if the presidential candidate started talking to the dead during a debate that would be pretty funny.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!


I have no issue with your post ralphwaldo. You - and some others here - clearly stated an opinion as just that. An opinion. You are suspicious and just don’t like the idea of grief being a form of entertainment (actually the relief of grief for most of his followers but that’s another issue). I won’t argue with what I would call healthy skepticism.

It’s just that when one becomes so arrogant as to believe their opinion is a statement of fact, then they are no different than the “gullible true believers” they look down upon as weak.

Quote:
On 2007-12-25 21:17, nucinud wrote:

Calling John Edward a scam artist is not an opinion, it is fact!


I rest my case.
nucinud
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Spin it any you like. The truth is hard to take. If truth is arrogance, guilty as charged.
"We are what we pretend to be" Kurt Vonnegut, jr.



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Harry Mandel

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David McCall
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Quote:
On 2007-12-23 02:18, The Feegee Mermaid wrote:
The Medium.
http://www.ourstrangeworld.net/?p=11453

For or Against?


Against.

Personally, one issue is that it's a lot easier to fake if Edwards was honestly somehow friends with the Irwin family. Those who don't know this might gain the impression that all of this information is from "unknown sources."

But then again, actors and celebrities sometimes love to lie about their friendships. So, no one knows except the Irwins and Edwards whether or not they are friends, whether or not they're all close.

The other thing that made me pause was that Edwards only realized that he could communicate with animals 5 years ago? If this was a "lifelong ability..." wouldn't he have figured it out earlier? I'm skeptical about th e whole John Edwards thing anyway, but... it just seems a little tacky, something that IMHO, Edwards has a tendancy to do.
nucinud
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"We are what we pretend to be" Kurt Vonnegut, jr.



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Harry Mandel

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