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Keith Mitchell
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Why use Queen of Hearts in card forces? Why use Ace of Spades?

I just bought a forcing deck, Queen of Hearts, for a specific trick I saw on a DVD I refuse to name because it does not include Closed-Captioning/Subtitles, therefore I don't know why the Q/H is used.

Thank you in advance for answering this question.

P.S.
I am hearing impaired and the magical community does not want me to know what is being said on their DVD's, so I come here for answers in written format.
Jaz
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I'm not sure why the force deck is QH but here's what little help I can offer.

Some magi suggest that if you ask a woman to name a favorite card that it's likely that either the AH or QH may be named.
I've personally found that lots of men will often name AS.
Spellbinder
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Perhaps you should create a list of Magic related DVDs and Videotapes that DO have closed captioning for the hearing impaired. I would be glad to host such a list on my site if it can't be posted here in a sticky thread. If everyone who needs that service contributes to the list, we could then begin to notify publishers that there is a definite market and need for them to provide closed captioning on any DVDs they produce.
Professor Spellbinder

Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry

http://www.magicnook.com

Publisher of The Wizards' Journals
sieler
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Hi,
Without knowing the DVD, it may be that the queen of hearts just happened to be used. relatively few tricks rely on a specific card. Also, there are many ways of forcing a card ... you don't need a forcing deck (although for the trick you're doing, one might be needed...not knowing what trick it is, I can't say).

Awhile ago, one guy in our local ring bought 52 decks of cards and created 52 one-way force decks ... and sold most of them to fellow club members. He made a bit of a profit, paying him for his time, and we all got a chance to buy a forcing deck at a low price.

I'll echo the offer to host your list, if you need it.

Stan
Jaz
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A while ago it was suggested that Steve make a category that deals with both disabled magicians and audiences. I believe Steve said that it's in the works but it's been quite a while.

A list of close captioned vids would fit nicely.
Keith Mitchell
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Quote:
On 2007-12-25 02:09, sieler wrote:
Hi,
Without knowing the DVD, it may be that the queen of hearts just happened to be used. relatively few tricks rely on a specific card. Also, there are many ways of forcing a card ... you don't need a forcing deck (although for the trick you're doing, one might be needed...not knowing what trick it is, I can't say).

Awhile ago, one guy in our local ring bought 52 decks of cards and created 52 one-way force decks ... and sold most of them to fellow club members. He made a bit of a profit, paying him for his time, and we all got a chance to buy a forcing deck at a low price.

I'll echo the offer to host your list, if you need it.

Stan



Without knowing the DVD? This statement would be the same as a deaf person not knowing what is being said on the DVD, which is 99% of all Magic DVDs. Therefore, I still refuse to identify the DVD, because they don't deserve to be known. The DVD is about many ways of forcing a card and shows many visual examples of how it is done, it's just that one trick uses a mental force that forces the spectator to choose between three cards. I forget what it is called when you force someone to choose a specific object out of three. Anyway, whatever that force is called it is all verbal on the DVD, and I cannot fallow what is being said. The magician in this DVD somehow forces the spectator to name the Queen of Hearts out of the three suit cards, and the Queen of hearts got my attention. I did research here on the Café and saw many other examples that people are using either Ace of Spades or Queen of hearts in card forcing tricks, and my original question was why the Queen of Hearts and Ace of Spades so popular as Forcing cards?

I have already emailed the people who made this DVD and ask them to explain the trick, and I gave them receipt number to verify that I purchased the DVD from them. Their response was that I should show the DVD to someone and have them interpret what was being said. I was SHOCKED by this response because we are taught to never reveal the secret to anyone, not only that but I paid $35 for this DVD and expect better service from them. Also, I paid for this DVD for my own personal enjoyment, and do not want other people to get a free show.

There is another DVD that comes with a forcing Gimmick, and I sent an email to the publisher asking them if I would have a hard time following their DVD being Deaf, and they never responded. This is another example of how the Magic retailers are just flat out ignoring the Deaf community. A long time ago I sent a letter to the president of SAM about lack of Closed-Captioning/Subtitles and NEVER got a response.

I have already thought of buying 52 decks of cards and creating 52 forcing decks. When I get the money I will do just that, and it sounds like a fun thing to do. Would enjoy a forcing deck of all Jokers, and if anyone knows a routine with Joker forcing deck please let me know.
Payne
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Have you considered books? All of them are "Closed Captioned". I seriously doubt that you'll find many magic related DVDs with closed captioning as it's a feature that is undoubtedly beyond the technological scope of most producers of Magic Oriented DVDs as most of these are "Home Published" with off the shelf software that doesn't have advanced features like embedding closed captioning.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Keith Mitchell
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Quote:
On 2007-12-26 10:36, Payne wrote:
Have you considered books? All of them are "Closed Captioned". I seriously doubt that you'll find many magic related DVDs with closed captioning as it's a feature that is undoubtedly beyond the technological scope of most producers of Magic Oriented DVDs as most of these are "Home Published" with off the shelf software that doesn't have advanced features like embedding closed captioning.


Here we go again! Of course I have books, lots of them, and I am expecting a new one to arrive this week.

Once in a while I want to look at DVDs just like anyone else, so don't give me some cheap advice to forget about DVDs and buy books. As a deaf individual I am entitled to watch DVDs just like anyone else.

The DVDs that I buy are usually from big name magic producers that are capable of doing much more than they let on. Also, when I emailed them to kindly explain something at least they could do is send something in writing, but I get rejected repeatdly.

Keep in mind that with the inclusion of CC/Subtitles it would be much more profitable to them, especially to people in other speaking countries. Why would anyone in the business world want to avoid making more money?

What does this have to do with Queen of Hearts being the forcing card? I guess I made a mistake of starting an off-topic complaint, but at least it is generating attention.
tedski
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Do you know of the Café member Ron Jaxon? He is hearing impaired, and a real good magician. He also has a website http://www.magicjax.com. You should check it out if you're not familiar.

I don't think this will correct the problem you are indicating, but I can think of no better person to suggest you reach out to for advice. Good luck
Chad Barnard
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Madkiki,

Just to be clear, I think Payne was taking a swipe at the ineptitude of magic DVD producers and not to your question.
marty.sasaki
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I don't have any suggestions for your dilemna and feel sympatheric for your position. There are many situations that I encounter while not as challenging as your position, often leave me wondering why the world works the way that it does.

Having said that, in many ways, I don't think you are missing out on that much. I think that books are far superior for learning magic. I really think it's a bad thing that some folks choose to release their material only on video. The folks who depend only on video's aren't getting as much for their dollar.

It's one of the tragedies of our life that so little reading is done. I guess writing a book is difficult, writing well is difficult, making DVD's is probably easier to make money at than writing a book, more money for time spent. I bet with available production facilities like Kosmo or Bob Kohler you can do things pretty quickly, they have done a lot of the hard work already.

Certainly there are many things that having a video to actually see things makes life easier, but there really aren't that many things that a well written description with a few photographs or illustrations can't teach.
Marty Sasaki
Arlington, Massachusetts, USA

Standard disclaimer: I'm just a hobbyist who enjoys occasionally mystifying friends and family, so my opinions should be viewed with this in mind.
Ray_Mago
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If you want a DVD with subtitles, that may be a little hard.

but David Stone in both volumes 1 and 2 teaches without words, even though it's a little hard understanding the trick, it is VERY useful and I have used a couple of his routines even though I am not hearing impaired.
he is half deaf, so he pretty much made this DVD with the hearing impaired in mind.

hope this helps!!
Have you Amazed?
jimhlou
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Madkiki:

I never use the queen of hearts or the ace of spades in my routines. If I order a specific type of deck, I always put a note with the order - "no Ace of Spades or Queen of Hearts". If the supplier can't guarantee what card you get (or don't get), buy somewhere else.

Jim
airship
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I endure a less troublesome but similar form of discrimination due to disability. Due to nerve damage from diabetic neuropathy, I mostly rely on so-called 'self-working' effects. Many magicians look down their noses at these sorts of tricks, and denigrate the skills of those who do them.

I used to be able to walk a half dollar across my knuckles and back palm a stack of cards, but I can no longer do so. What I CAN do is put together a fine set of 'self-working' tricks and present them in such a way that my audience is amused, entertained, and (occasionally) astounded. Isn't that what magic is supposed to be about?

Anyway, I hope you get in touch with Ron Jaxon, as suggested above. He's beat all the odds and become the best deaf magician in the country.
'The central secret of conjuring is a manipulation of interest.' - Henry Hay
Payne
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You'd be better served to figure out a way to overcome the obstacles you encounter yourself than relying on the generosity of others to do it for you. I sincerely doubt that the makers of magic DVDs are going to change their ways no matter how much or loudly you point out the perceived errors of their ways. It's a tiny market. Most DVDs I'd wager sell between 500 to 1000 copies with the handful of more popular titles going to 2000 to 5000 copies. The hearing impaired magicians requiring closed captioning are such a small blip in the market that it's really not cost effective for them to make the investment in the technology as it wouldn't increase their sales enough to justify the added cost. It's a purely market driven affair.
We all make concessions due to our limitations. I can't see 3D Movies due to only having one working eye and I have to drive across town to shop at the Fat guys clothes store since normal shops don't carry sizes that fit me. We do the best we can given what we've got to work with.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Spellbinder
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Quote:
On 2007-12-25 07:35, madkiki wrote:
I have already thought of buying 52 decks of cards and creating 52 forcing decks. When I get the money I will do just that, and it sounds like a fun thing to do. Would enjoy a forcing deck of all Jokers, and if anyone knows a routine with Joker forcing deck please let me know.

I thought about what you could do with an all Joker deck during my Christmas vacation and I came up with an idea, but it's off the topic of this thread, so I will post it in the "We double dare you!" thread as a puzzler.
Professor Spellbinder

Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry

http://www.magicnook.com

Publisher of The Wizards' Journals
Jaxon
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If I could hear I'd make a business of subtitling DVDs. If you can hear it's dirt easy to do. Maybe a little time consuming but there's nothing hard about it and it only has to be done once. There are more advantages to it then just of hearing impaired people too. Once it's subtitled it's a snap to convert that to other languages. If someone in Japan wanted to buy the DVD and they didn't speak English. No problem, just translate it.

I wonder because there are laws coming into effect that every DVD sold has to be either subtitled or closed captioned for the hearing impaired. At least that law will be in effect for publicly sold videos (I'm not lawyer bet as I deaf guy I receive information what's going on for deaf and hard of hearing people.

My advice would be to just ask if anyone has this particular DVD and if they can share what this QH is all about.

I'll tell you a little trick I'm doing now though madkiki. I haven't been able to enjoy a movie in a theater in a long time before I though of this. You can download subtitles of movies and you can often find them before they are even released in theaters or at least while they are still playing in them. So I'll go to sites like this one and get the subtitles. Let's say the movie is 1hr 30 min. long. I'll make an AVI video of a plain black screen. Then I'd put the subtitles on that video. Load this on a PDA or even some cell phones. So I now have a sort of hand held subtitles device. It's not as good but I can at least peak down and read it when I need to. I just play it in time with the movie. I should also point out that every program I used to make these I found free on line. Let me know if this is something that would interest you and I'll give you more details.

Here's even better news. Speech recognition technology is picking up. Hopefully soon we'll have a device that can subtitle any movie or even real time speech and turn it into text. I can't wait till someone puts these technologies together.

All the best.
Image


After regaining my ability to hear after 20 years of deafness. I learned that there is magic all around you. The simplest sounds that amazed me you probably ignore. Look and listen around you right now. You'll find something you didn't notice before.
Keith Mitchell
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I am familiar with Ron Jaxon and we have spoken in the past. Looks like he has forgotten about me here in the Café, but that is ok because he appears to be a very busy Magician. I have heard a lot of good things about Ron Jaxon as well, and I hope he becomes world famous in the near future.

Hey Ron, I read somewhere that there is this man who works at IBM and is working on the Speech Recognition technology. He is a deaf man from Russia who happens to be very good at Math. It's great to know that deaf people are on the forefront of technology.

I cannot wait for that law to past, and then I can finally shut up about it.

I have not gone to movie theatres in over 11 years; always rent movies at Block Buster that include CC/Subtitles. It's the best way to go. Too many hearing people don't have a clue to what that means to us deaf people

My biggest challenge in magic is that I live in a small town in NC that I don't know any magicians to help guide me. I know I am not supposed to depend on them and I have no intention of doing that, but some constructive critisism could help out (did I spell that right?). Many of the great magicians do have mentors helping them out.

NOW, about forcing decks, I have about three of them. Just had to order a forcing deck with Q/H for this set of DVDs that I recently received. My original question was why Q/H and it was just a curiousity question. I will not be dependent on forcing decks or Q/H forcing deck.

Thanks to all who have responded, and I think now is a good time to move on to other more important Magical Topics.

Have a Happy and Safe Holidays to Everyone.
Bob Sanders
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Madkiki,

As the magicians' silk importer I have two pieces of news that may add to this thread.

1. We used the Queen of Hearts on card silks for many years because in almost any deck of cards it offers the most visual contrast and the best piece of art in a deck of cards.

2. They are no longer available. We quit importing them over a year ago. They are no longer in production. If you have one of our Queen of Hearts card silks, you have a collector's item. There are a few 24" good ones left but no 36" ones. I have seen some of the "seconds" out on auctions. As compared to most silk printing jobs, the Queen of Hearts is the most expensive and sophisticated. (Lower quality items tend to replace higher quality ones.)

Oddly, the Ace of Spades is still in production but it is cheaper to print. There is no registration print constraints and it is only one color (black).

You asked a very good question!

Bob Sanders
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Hearttau
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It would be great if that disabled forum could be setup sometime soon. To have area to at least post disability related info in sticky form would be wonderful. Regarding subtitling technology, I’m amazed that at this point in time, it hasn’t been standardized by law! I have wrongly assumed that was the case already.

As Ron pointed out the technology is there and is apparently not difficult to use. The bigger magic DVD publishers really have no excuse not to close caption. If the technology is out of reach of individual magicians who self publish due to cost, that is understandable but they still should include captioning if at all possible. Perhaps through grants from the I.B.M. or S.A.M, it would be a worthy endeavor for these magical institutions to undertake. I use captioning often to copy lyrics in songs, or when someone on TV has a heavy accent and the network fails to provide subtitles. I can think of several magicians who fall into the latter category. Smile My point being that captioning can be useful to the hearing community as well.
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