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fortasse Inner circle 1201 Posts |
Does anyone know what C&B routines most influenced Vernon in the development of his own major routine or,to approach it a little differently, what earlier routines are closest in design and structure to Vernon's?
Season's Greetings! Fortasse |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
I don't have any way to substantiate this, but I understand that Malini's routine contributed greatly to Vernon's.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Mr. Muggle Special user 999 Posts |
Bills understanding is correct...
Quote:
"The ingenious Malini evolved a method of eliminating the need for a serante [...], and it was on this basis that Dai Vernon built the routine which his fellow magicians agree to be on of the finest in existence" Dai Vernon Book of Magic p.125 Unfortunately, I can't assist you regarding your question about earlier routines similar in design and structure to Vernon's as my library isn't a good resource for that time period.
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
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fortasse Inner circle 1201 Posts |
Thanks for these replies, Bill and Mr. Muggle.
I've never actually come across a description of Malini's routine. I've read of how in preparation for an "impromptu" C&B performance he would fashion the balls out of wine corks by cutting them into squares, but as for a step-by-step routine, I've never seen it in any form of print. Have any of you? Fortasse |
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Mr. Muggle Special user 999 Posts |
No, but I have read the descriptions that you are referring to. One book that I have not yet purchased that may help is "Malini and His Magic". I will be curious to see if there is anything within its pages that sheds some light on the topic.
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
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fortasse Inner circle 1201 Posts |
I recall asking this question before and being informed that the book contained nothing on Malini's Cups and Balls routine.
Fortasse |
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Mr. Muggle Special user 999 Posts |
That's to bad - I had hoped to find something within its pages.
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
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carbone1853 Loyal user RI USA 239 Posts |
I don't know if Vernon was influenced by the c+b rt in Sachs Sleight of Hand, but the Vernon rt follows the basic out line.
Chris |
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Darkwing Inner circle Nashville Tn 1850 Posts |
I'm just throwing this out, but since Charlie Miller and Vernon were good friends and Charlie knew a lot about cups and balls, would it not be logical for Charlie to be an influence on Vernon?
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Persi Diaconis should know.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Johnny Thompson's routine has the most information about what Max Malini did with the cups that I know of.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Persi taught me a Malini move, and remember, he lived with Vernon for a long time and he has Vernon's Persian engraved cups. I'll see if I cn get hold of him to ask.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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lint Special user Concord, CA 967 Posts |
Did Paul Daniels cover Malini's cups in his tribute performance? Perhaps he did the research to recreate it...
-todd
"There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip..." -English Proverb
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Mr. Muggle Special user 999 Posts |
Is any literature on Malini's cups and balls routine in existence?
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
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fortasse Inner circle 1201 Posts |
Not that I'm aware of. In fact, that's what prompted my original question. If you could reconstruct the Malini routine, you could then compare it to Vernon's and see to what extent Vernon's routine was modelled on Malini's.
Fortasse |
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lint Special user Concord, CA 967 Posts |
From Paul Daniels on the subject of him and his one man Malini tribute show:
"Sorry, I cannot help on this one. I decided that as I was SO associated with the Chop Cup that I would not do the Cups and Balls. Like all great magicians, the secret of Malini was not in the routine, but in the personality and the quite slow presentation, allowing the public the time to absorb and be amazed by the tricks..." so...not much new info. I asked if a description of Malini's c&b was in print anywhere. Nice of him to respond though! -Todd
"There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip..." -English Proverb
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Now if you could get half of what Paul gets with the Chop cup you would never bother with the cups and balls. I've seen him do it for a theater crowd of 2,000 and kill with it.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Tom G Inner circle 2895 Posts |
Was Pop Kreiger a cup worker? Vernon mentions him in a couple of different references.
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Mobius303 Inner circle Lakewood, Ohio 1309 Posts |
Pop Krieger was indeed a cup worker. He was the father inlaw of Al Flosso.
Pop Krieger influenced Malini's routine which had several other influences. Malini had a great impromtu routine where he would cut a wine cork and do the routine. I have no theard of a formal routine that Malini did. Bosco seems to be a big influence on the cups and balls and several of the phases that vernon does are attributed to Bosco. See the Sanyon lessons on Cups and balls in the Pallbearers review for more information. Mobius |
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fortasse Inner circle 1201 Posts |
The Stanyon Lessons were actually published in the Jinx, not the Pallbearers Review which, incidentally, I have been devouring over the holidays (in the three volume re-print of the entire run from L&L Publishing).
Perplexing, isn't it, that there doesn't appear to be any detailed description of Malini's routine? Fortasse |
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