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Wade Live
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BYUDAD,

I might have taken your above post the wrong way after reading a few replys you have made in the past. The who cares who cares comment caught my attention.... My bad DAWWGGG!

- Wade
P.S Have you ever asked them if they have permission to perform it that way? Maybe they have been granted permission?? Hmmm... I donno? :0)
Bill Nuvo
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Borrowing material is a tricky "grey" area sometimes. Once again though, following a basic guideline of ethics (as we do here on the Café by such discussions), will hopefully allow us to be as original and/or ethical as possible. Within our magic community, we applaud those who excel at this. The fact of the matter though is that we are left with the problem of one's personal choice (darn that freedom!).

Also as Wade pointed out , one can't always know the full story so maybe we should focus on using words in our opinions such as "we assume" "it seems" and the like.
Gary Yin
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Made in China?
yrag89@hotmail.com (msn msgr)

Gary Justin Yin.
Bill Nuvo
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Is there a recall? (sorry couldn't resist)
adam christopher
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Is it just me, or wasn't there still theft back in the day....read an Illusion Builder to Fu Manchu about how he ripped off the Nicola, Raymond, & Dante Shows.....and the old stories of Houdini vs. Kellar and Thurston...just my .02....AC
Bill Nuvo
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And your point Adam? Back in the day, people did a lot of things we no longer do and for good reason.
adam christopher
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My point is that if lying, thieving and general treachery were acceptable amongst the masters of our artform why is it unacceptable today? MY response was actually in response to Blair's response to the young generation being illiterate you-tube addicted copycats who could read and learn from the past masters of the art...who just happened to lie, cheat and steal from each other...food for thought!

AC
Bill Nuvo
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Learn from them their dedication to the art, but also learn to not make the same mistakes.
adam christopher
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Alas the Rub a man with a plunger on his head saying that worked for Houdini, Thurston et al is not appropriate for today......come on now! This whole ethics in Illusions has only existed since David Copperfield...before it was fair game...but don't let me stand in the way of progress!
Blair Marshall
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Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!! That hurts!!

Me thinks Adam has zinged two of us, the "old" guy, and the one with the "plunger on his head"!!!!! LOL

Come on Adam I didn't make it sound THAT bad (did I??)

It would seem that you have read some about magic, but how many others have? I talk to other young performers and they have no knowledge of clubs, magazines (actually ones about magic!), or books. Their knowledge is internet based. ie. subject focussed through a search engine. It is not "true" research or a learning experience. It is quick and easy fix to find out how it's done, and then lift/borrow/steal!

Blair Marshall
"ShaZzam!"
Caveat Lector
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Quote:
On 2007-12-30 21:26, BYUDAD wrote:
I know a few of the hardest working and busiest performers in the industry and they are even too busy to chat on the Café. The real pros if you will. When was the last time you saw a post from the big time pros on the Café? I am pretty sure it is less than 435 posts.

BYUDAD


As do I, and I have the pleasure of being very close friends with many "big time pros." I do not claim to be a "big time pro" nor do I care to be, I am interested in success not fame. But, I am a professional entertainer, and my credentials speak for themselves. So, for you to make a comment about me not being a pro is just argumentative and unfounded. I like the Café and I make time for it when I can.

John
Corrupting the art of magic, one show at a time
www.underworldent.com
www.myspace.com/johnshawcomedymagic
Bill Nuvo
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So what wrong with progress Adam? LOL Did you even read my post? You can learn both what to do and what not to do from the same person. Ask your parents. And hey, leave the plunger out of this! LOL
Blair Marshall
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I think the plunger on the head could be a good magic sight gag!!!


Oooooops! That's already been done!

Blair Marshall
"ShaZzam!"
61magic
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Adam, the reason for my post was to say that ripping off is not okay not even by the big names, then or now.
Jim Steinmeyer, and Bill Smith are big names in the industry today.
I feel what Steinmeyer "invented" was not original, and Bill Smith should not have produced it.
Basically they did what most of us here on the Café speak out against, only this time it didn't come from the "low cost" market.
Professor J. P. Fawkes
adam christopher
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My whole point is not to attack other Magi, but to defend the young-ish Magi....without these young whipper-snappers who're coming up there won't be a tomorrow in Magic...teach them the way, don't criticize them for trying to learn!!! I was luckily blessed with the ability to apprentice with a great man, who himself had apprenticed with Bill Neff...if it had not been for that I too would be a clueless youtuber...the truth is that there are only so many different concepts in Magic, and that everything new is truly something that was once very old, it just had some new greasepaint, sequins, and flashy lights tossed on it...an appearance is an appearance, a levitation is a levitation, etc.....are there new wrappings on them yes..but a box is a box, a table is a table, it's all about entertainment in the audiences eyes, and that is something that Bill Smith and Jim Steinmeyer don't have a patent on!!!!!

BTW, in all honesty I do believe that Jim Steinmeyer is an incredible mind.. just look at what he's done over on the big eared show now travelling the world...but even Jim Probably annoyed the hell out of someone to start with, maybe even pinched an idea or two!

MY .02

AC
Bill Nuvo
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Quote:
On 2007-12-31 16:26, Blair Marshall wrote:
I think the plunger on the head could be a good magic sight gag!!!


Oooooops! That's already been done!

Blair Marshall
"ShaZzam!"


I take full credit for this idea. Everybody else just took it from me! LOL Interesting enough though, it did come out almost intuitively. When I was young I had that Sorcerer's Apprentice hat with the plunger. As I lost my hair at young age I figured what the heck, I don't need the elastic strap to hold it on. Then the ring toss idea just came with goofing around. Plungers are naturally funny for some reason. Maybe it's because of what they are associated with, a faux pas that people really don't talk about but that everybody knows about. Plungers have been used in comedy since their widespread use. They have been used as swords, stuck on faces, used in cartoons, juggled and more. I definitely don't total originality with it though.
abercrombe
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Quote:
On 2007-12-31 12:20, Blair Marshall wrote
It would seem that you have read some about magic, but how many others have? I talk to other young performers and they have no knowledge of clubs, magazines (actually ones about magic!), or books. Their knowledge is internet based. ie. subject focussed through a search engine. It is not "true" research or a learning experience. It is quick and easy fix to find out how it's done, and then lift/borrow/steal!

Blair Marshall
"ShaZzam!"



You are absolutely right that they don't read, when they do they complain about the lack of illusstrations. They know about all the so called new hot stuff but can't tell you who invented the chop cup,dove pan, milk picther, Zig Zag and on and on. It is up to us to educate the new to magic on history and good ethics and more. BTW I saw a gentleman performing the Zombie and when he finished he asked what I thought. I told him he should find a new way to perform it because he did Tim Wrights Zombie routine verbatim and badly. He said Tim who? I said Skilldini and he said, Oh yeah. Not only do they not know history, they believe no-one else does either. If we give up, then magic is doomed to obscurity.
Cheers
Al
Wade Live
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I did some work on my authentic audience acupuncture... I felt it was very boring to look at so this is what I came up with. It's like DUHHH their SHARP!

http://wadelive.com/spikes.JPG

I have to say this thing is SUPER deceptive from only a few feet away... 5 stars in my book! Thank you Bill Smith... :0)

- Wade
Terry Holley
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Quote:
On 2008-01-11 20:52, Wade Live wrote:
I did some work on my authentic audience acupuncture... I felt it was very boring to look at so this is what I came up with. It's like DUHHH their SHARP!

http://wadelive.com/spikes.JPG

I have to say this thing is SUPER deceptive from only a few feet away... 5 stars in my book! Thank you Bill Smith... :0)

- Wade


Two words. "OUCH" and "beautiful"!

Reminds me of the time I laid down under the spikes on Andre' Kole's "Table of Death."

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
Wade Live
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