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adam christopher
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Rock on Wade!!!!!!!! All I've gotta say is ouch!

~AC
61magic
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Question Wade, may I ask what you paid for this?
Also have you ever looked at a Lester Lake shredder?
Professor J. P. Fawkes
Wade Live
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It was about 7k with the ata.... I think I saw a photo of the shredder last year somewhere. I cant remember where though... The spikes come from above right?

Wade
Chezaday
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My guess is that Wade doesn't have a girlfriend. Maybe you should grab a pillow, a blanket and sleep on top of your new prop.

I'm one to talk .. my Origami Box was looking kind of lonely last night in my living room.

Steve
Wade Live
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Hey now! At least I have 18 holes to choose from..... :0)
adam christopher
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Leave it to Chez to bring this down the proverbial rabbit hole(s)!
Terry Holley
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If you go to the link below,you should be able to view a photo of a Lester Lake Shredder that is no longer for sale on eBay. You can then see the difference between the two illusions.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lester-Lake-SHREDDER......ViewItem

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
Wade Live
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Yeah... Not my style at all...
Blair Marshall
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Maybe not, but there have been different styles of it.

Blair Marshsall
"ShaZzam!"
Chezaday
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The old Shredder is pretty cool. I actually performed with an Abbott's Shredder as part of the Collector's Weekend in Chicago a few years back. The opening night show was called "Magic Old and Seldom Seen." We did a fun version of the old Shredder in the beginning of the show and later closed the show with Audience Acupuncture.

It was really neat to perform both versions for a crowd of magic enthusiasts. I think we even used the balloons in the first demonstration.

Steve

We can talk about falling in love with our props on another post .. actually that would be pretty funny!
Wade Live
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U crack me up Steve...
61magic
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I still have a problem with Steinmeyer listing the Audience Acupuncture on his web site as one of his creations.
In truth Audience Acupuncture is a reengineering of a Shredder with some minor changes. I have yet to see any advertisement giving credit of the idea to Lester Lake.
When magicians talk so much about ethics on this site some seem to over look the big names in the discussions.
Audience Acupuncture is a fine illusion but give the real creator his due.
Professor J. P. Fawkes
Chezaday
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You're overlooking one key element that has been added to Steinmeyer's illusion. You visually see the bed of spikes pass through the volunteer. The old Shredder does all it's work under cover and not nearly as effective.

Obviously the starting point was with Lester Lake's idea and redesigning the whole illusion.

I'm sure Jim will acknowledge Lester's original work.

Steve
M-Illusion
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While the original is still a great illusion, Jim has taken it a step further, as Steve pointed out. I don't think Jim is trying to "hide" the fact that he used Shredder as the basis for the illusion or rip off the original Lester Lake concept.
61magic
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So where is the acknowledgement?

Also Steve you do not see the spikes pass through the assistant the covering box is on top of the assistant the entire time.
Professor J. P. Fawkes
Chezaday
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Ya got me there .. but, the old Shredder you see nothing but the handles move up and down. Then you see the spike under the table .. maybe protruding about an inch or so. It's very week .. I know, the audience didn't even see the spikes under the table.

With Jim's you see the action of the bed of spikes moving up and through your volunteer. Then the spike above .. much more effective, you can't miss them.

Steve
61magic
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The discussion is over the origin of the illusion, and it was not with Steinmeyer...
Also on the shredder the door was opened to show the spikes in position.
I freely admit the audience dismember from an effect point of view in an improvement over the original shredder.
The strong point of the shredder is it can be worked surrounded in full light, the audience didmember can't.
I would just like to see credit made to the originator.
Professor J. P. Fawkes
Terry Holley
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Quote:
On 2008-01-12 22:05, 61magic wrote:
The discussion is over the origin of the illusion, and it was not with Steinmeyer...
Also on the shredder the door was opened to show the spikes in position.
I freely admit the audience dismember from an effect point of view in an improvement over the original shredder.
The strong point of the shredder is it can be worked surrounded in full light, the audience didmember can't.
I would just like to see credit made to the originator.


Lester Lake did not create "Audience Acupuncture." Jim Steinmeyer did and therefore the origin is with him. As I have already stated, it is sufficiently different in a number of ways to stand on it's own. Your last posts, as well as others', mention some of the differences.

You have intimated in your posts that "Audience Acupuncture" is a ripoff. It seems to me the logical conclusion of that thinking is that it should have never been created, and it appears from your previous statements that this is what you believe. I disagree.

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
Chezaday
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Ya can't make everyone happy .. and what ever we say here on the Café isn't going to satisfy 61magic. Your quick to tear down one of the greatest contributers to modern magic .. must be some reason.

I took a look at your profile .. and sure enough, there's nothing there. Why??

Don't you think we should change all that and require additional information here on the Café. Anyone can hide behind a stupid name .. but, you should be accountable for what you have to say here. What do you have to hide?? Unless of course your name is Val Valentino.

I'm getting tired of all these so called know-it-alls. Let's clean house here .. who's with me??

Steve
61magic
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Steve, listen.
I was just asking for credit to be givin where credit is due, and if the person does not do that than a rip off occured.
The reason I pointed out the issue with Steinmeyer is all the rip off talk that goes on here at the Café. People are very quick to point out the people they think are ripping off but defend the big names.

Nice of you to attack me personally.
Just adding a picture, a link to a web site and information that may or may not be correct does not make anyone an authority.
What I put or do not put into my profile is my business.
If you are offended with what I say don't read or post in my comments.
Oh also if you want to clean house we can start with the hair band rejects from the 80's... LOL
Professor J. P. Fawkes
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