I'm with you Steve! I have been "slammed" here by those who hide behind an on-line name with only a very few posts. There should be accountability here.

Jack

Jack, I see you do not post your picture, can I ask why?
I could add a picture, and bio information to my profile, would that make either of you change your view of my post? no, it wouldn't.
Members of the Café have been quick to slam builders and performers over rip offs but when a big name is introduced into the debate the attack moves to the poster.
I believe if someone borrows an idea and does not give credit for it they are no better than the rip off builders many here talk about.
When Rich Hill introduced Dismiddlement he gave credit to Paul Osborne.

When I saw A.A. I did first think it resembled a reverse Shredder. This does not make me think any less of Jim's work. If someone I was consulting with wanted to have an effect of this nature in their show, or a presentation, I would include both as potential candidates. One may, for the effect, or presentation being created, be more "effective" (not necessarily magically so). I do consider the Shredder as a precursor to A.A.

And as 61Magic indicates he is only asking that this historical link be recognised. I have tried to shut down some of the threads crying rip-off all the time, where there is an immediate cry with no proof or justification. But the question still is, and has been posted MANY times, when is an illusion/effect consider lifted/borrowed/stolen.

I do think 61Magic is asking a valid question/point.

Timothy has outlined what his thoughts are on this.

Here would be some of my questions regarding a "new" illusion/effect for me.

Is it end result? (ie. the girl vanishes?)
Is it the design of the equipment? (Shredder-a spike bed that moves?)
Is it the effect? (same style of presentation - Origami vs. Intruder Box)
Is it the presentation? (theme, costume, music, movement - a sawing for example)
Is it the method? (girl without a middle - Steinmeyer/Henning vs. Thayer vs. Reid)
`
What makes an illusion (I hate to use this word!!!) a rip-off. AND, I am not using it here, but if I was trying to devolpe an illusion with a spike bed that moved, I would ceertainly have had the Shredder plans close at hand.

As Paul Daniels has said, want to create a "new" effect.....make it bigger, change the shape, move the parts around.

So, can we say that Lester Lake provied the "inspiration" for A.A.?????


Blair Marshall
"ShaZzam!"

61magic, my post wasn't directed at you but in general.
Many here have no pic. I just haven't posted one....no reason.

"So, can we say that Lester Lake provided the "inspiration" for A.A.?????"

Corrected the typo! B.M

Posted: Jan 13, 2008 10:45am
When is an illusion considered to have enough improvements/changes/modifications to be called a "new" illusion??

Blair Marshall
"ShaZzam!"

Jack I think you see my point. Pictures, bio information is a personal choice, should you be run off the Café because you don't have a posted picture?
If someone is that interested into pictures and bios go to match.com and find someone there.

Personal attack?? Hair band reject from the 80's?? Nice .. at least I have something to contribute here on the Café.

As far as I'm concerned you have no background in magic. Prove me wrong .. let's see your website, let's see something about you. All my info is readily available online .. you can even give me a call. Back up what your saying here .. what do you have to hide??

I've got nothing to hide .. except maybe a can of Aqua-Net according to you.

Steve

Steve, all of us have something to contribute on the Café, we don't always agree but still have something to say.
We can agree to disagree.
I have nothing to hide and I have no need to prove anything to you.
If you don't like my messages don't read my posts. simple.
I won't attack you if you don't attack me. simple.

LOL!! The Café is GREAT!!!! Urr suck a jerk Steve! Quit it!! LOL...

Why don't we take the personal stuff off to PM's???

Blair Marshall
"ShaZzam!"

Wow I just see this has went the wrong way. Anywas back on topic.

Why match.com. IS that the only place you can get a date. j/k come one everyone I feel like I am in high school. again. The good old days.

Ok back on topic

This obviously took a wrong turn and I'm not on her to attack others. I myself, am very passionate about the art of magic .. and things got out of hand. A simple note to my buddy 61magic and everything is cool.

I forgot what we were talking about in the first place??

Steve

That was interresting ladies...
Blair I think a combination off all you mentioned could count as a "rip off" or even just one factor for example the complete copy of the design, or presentation. Like mentioned many times before on the Café there is a big grey area here. But at the end of the day everyone can spot a complete "rip off" and when it comes to a "semi rip off", (like intruder box in my opinion)it is hard to say what is right or wrong.

I think it was AquaNet....? Maybe not.

Chris

Ladies??? Ouch...

I think we were talking about cut and restored rope???
Steve did dropped me a note, and yes everything is cool.

And for the record the only thing I've hid from the Café is the fact that I'm bald....