The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » New to magic? » » The Black Aces Experiment (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

ALEXANDRE
View Profile
Inner circle
2945 Posts

Profile of ALEXANDRE
Seven ...

The number of stars in the constellation of The Big Dipper...

A highly symbolic number in the Torah, alluding to the infusion of spirituality and Godliness into the Creation...

Yahweh or Jehovah is the divine name, whose letters' places alphabetically equal 70, a product of the divine number 7...

In the genealogy in the Gospel of Luke, Jesus is 77th in a direct line...

The number of heavens in Islamic tradition...

Buddha walked 7 steps at his birth...

The number of gateways traversed by Inanna during her descent into the underworld...

Seven Lucky Gods exist in Japanese mythology...

James Bond's agent secret number is 007...

Seven is the number of external holes in the human head...

The number of chakras...

The number of points on a sheriff's star...

The number of spots on a common ladybug, and tradition says that one's wish is granted if a ladybug lands on oneself.

Seven is a mystical, powerful number...

With all this in mind, remove five red cards ... and the two black Aces ... mix them and place them face down in a line ahead of you ... in a moment you will be turning over three of those cards....

The word "ace" comes from the Old French word 'as' (from Latin 'as') meaning 'a unit', from the name of a small Roman coin. It originally meant the side of a die with only one mark, before it was a term for a playing card. Since this was the lowest roll of the die, it traditionally meant 'bad luck' in Middle English....

After 7 deep hours of meditation, I have cursed the Black Aces worldwide for a short period of time and unless you are very strong in your sensibility and intuition, you will, out of the seven cards ahead of you, pull up a Black Ace, if not both!

Turn over three cards...

This is the Black Aces Experiment ... post your results.



For the skeptics amongst you, keep in mind that the so called "odds" are in the participant's favor as the first draw is 5 to 2 (five Red cards and the two Black Aces); the second draw is 4 to 2 (or 2 to 1 if you like) in the participant's favor because there will be four Red cards and the two Black Aces left; and the last draw is still in the participant's favor as far as "odds" are concerned by 3 to 2 (three Reds and the two Black Aces).

With this abundantly clear information I would appreciate if there were no interruptions during the experiment.

Thank you. Smile
Jaz
View Profile
Inner circle
NJ, U.S.
6112 Posts

Profile of Jaz
3rd was AS.

Again 3rd was AS.

No aces.

1st was AC.
Jerrine
View Profile
Special user
Busking is work.
629 Posts

Profile of Jerrine
3rd was AS
1st was AS
1st was AC
1st was AS
Father Photius
View Profile
Grammar Host
El Paso, TX (Formerly Amarillo)
17197 Posts

Profile of Father Photius
Both aces first two turned over.
"Now here's the man with the 25 cent hands, that two bit magician..."
dobber
View Profile
Regular user
163 Posts

Profile of dobber
Sir, you are presenting your odds incorrectly.
The participant has a 2 in 7 chance of selecting an Ace (28.6%) on the first draw. Not "5 to 2" as you suggest.

Also, the participant in this experiment isn't making three draws, he is choosing three cards at once.

The participant has 3 cards. Four are remaining. Supposing he reveals his 1st selection and it is not an Ace. That means there are still 2 Aces in play and he has a 33 chance of holding just ONE of them.

Other than that, I enjoy your presentation and am sure the false odds would fly by the vast majority of your audience.
Rob
Nicholas
View Profile
Special user
I predict that I now have
900 Posts

Profile of Nicholas
1st time: ace, no ace, ace (2 out of 3 are aces)
2nd time: no ace, no ace, ace (1 out of 3 is an ace)
3rd time: no ace, no ace, no ace (none of the 3 are aces)

Thanks!
Nicholas
Tom Jorgenson
View Profile
Inner circle
LOOSE ANGLES, CALIFORNIA
4452 Posts

Profile of Tom Jorgenson
We know that Dobbler. Hush.
We dance an invisible dance to music they cannot hear.
The Feegee Mermaid
View Profile
Loyal user
203 Posts

Profile of The Feegee Mermaid
1st time - 0 aces, 3 red.
2nd time - 1 ace, 2 red.
3rd time - 2 aces, 1 red.

- THE Feegee Mermaid
Austin113
View Profile
New user
New Jersey
67 Posts

Profile of Austin113
1st time - AS on the first turn
2nd time - AS on the third turn
3rd time - AS on the first turn
4th time - No red ace.

I'm really enjoying these, Alexandre!! Keep'em coming.
The method is not the secret.
ALEXANDRE
View Profile
Inner circle
2945 Posts

Profile of ALEXANDRE
Quote:
On 2008-01-17 19:34, dobber wrote:
Sir, you are presenting your odds incorrectly.
The participant has a 2 in 7 chance of selecting an Ace (28.6%) on the first draw. Not "5 to 2" as you suggest.

Also, the participant in this experiment isn't making three draws, he is choosing three cards at once.

The participant has 3 cards. Four are remaining. Supposing he reveals his 1st selection and it is not an Ace. That means there are still 2 Aces in play and he has a 33 chance of holding just ONE of them.

Other than that, I enjoy your presentation and am sure the false odds would fly by the vast majority of your audience.
Rob


Rob, did you read the part where I wrote: "I would appreciate if there were no interruptions during the experiment." or were you too overcome with the desire to show us how clever you are?

I have a morbid curiosity to understand what inspires you to reveal this information?

This is called a presentation, when you perform the cross-cut force as an example, do you just casually say the card has been cut to that location or do you feel the need to explain to the participant exactly what is going on?

Sounds to me like you don't do much performing, though much theorizing....

This presentation was placed here for the benefit of those who are "New to Magic". In my view, presentation is extremely important and I find that a lot of people starting out are more concerned with WHAT "tricks" they are going to perform, rather than HOW. I believe this presentation on this very easy "effect" (if you want to call it that) demonstrates the value of that.

Anyway....
Austin113
View Profile
New user
New Jersey
67 Posts

Profile of Austin113
Quote:
In my view, presentation is extremely important and I find that a lot of people starting out are more concerned with WHAT "tricks" they are going to perform, rather than HOW.


Truer words could not have been spoken...er..typed.
The method is not the secret.
dobber
View Profile
Regular user
163 Posts

Profile of dobber
I guess I don't understand the benefit of posting this in the New To Magic section. I assumed it would be helpful to other newbies if they understood the correct odds.

Sorry. My screwup. Won't happen again.

Regards, Rob
ALEXANDRE
View Profile
Inner circle
2945 Posts

Profile of ALEXANDRE
We all mess up, Rob, so ultimately no problem, but the "newbies" were going to find out sooner or later, I was just hoping they could perhaps enjoy the presentation a little longer ... I had other plans ... but that's cool.

The benefit is to show the importance of presentation and a little fun. This and the King/Seven thing I posted (not to be confused with the King/Seven Experiment in my eBook CINCO), are extremely easy "effects" if you could call them that, but with presentation, you could actually pull them off okay.

I was demonstrating because many "newbies" are too concerned with "tricks" and not nearly enough on presentation.

Now many "newbies" have had a chance to see the presentation and the "secret" ... I hope it can come to some use to them.
Tom Cutts
View Profile
Staff
Northern CA
5815 Posts

Profile of Tom Cutts
Some might consider such a glaringly goof in factual odds a poor choice of presentation. Most people I know would have been figuring at those odds before engaging in the game. Alexandre, I felt your choice to express innaccurate odds had the opposite effect as you desired. Doesn't presentation take steps to stop people from digging into puzzle solving mode?
ALEXANDRE
View Profile
Inner circle
2945 Posts

Profile of ALEXANDRE
I have to disagree. Most people will listen to those odds and think "sure it makes sense" ... naturally not to the intelligent crowd on the Café, but in the real world it happens.

This specific thing is not a magic "trick" but a scam artist "bet". It works (not always of course), in most instances it'll go by unnoticed, sort of like when you cut the cards in a cross-cut force. Perhaps having the info written down makes a huge difference ... but that wasn't the point of the presentation anyway.

Do you believe this particular "trick" would work better without the "odds" explanation?

My opinion is that it absolutely would not.

Anyway, I won't be wasting anyone's time here in the "New to Magic" section with this silliness anymore, rest assured.
PBiddy412
View Profile
New user
Pennsylvania
27 Posts

Profile of PBiddy412
I think the presentation would be well with the odds explanation the way you have it. I actually was fooled by the odds until I got further down the post so not all are that intelligent. Smile
Tom Jorgenson
View Profile
Inner circle
LOOSE ANGLES, CALIFORNIA
4452 Posts

Profile of Tom Jorgenson
This is a great gag and a lot of fun. It plays very well and can be 'bumped up' to play big. Ernie Guderjahn and I used to do this in the early eighties (as I remember) during our Old Time Gambler stints at Vegas Nights around LA. A separate table would be set up doing this and we would glean the play money from the participants, all in the name of charity. I rigged up a way to run this with 5-6 people at a time, like a Vegas game. We called it "Charity Poker" as I recall, a fictitious Old West gambling game. They bought it.

Nobody except the occasional accountant or statistician would catch the odds' discrepency. The odds seem clear and logical, especially if laid out slowly and deliberately so they understood each point. It is stronger with the explanation, but you immediately get beyond that and into the game.
We dance an invisible dance to music they cannot hear.
Austin113
View Profile
New user
New Jersey
67 Posts

Profile of Austin113
Forgive me for the randomness, but this suddenly reminds me of a riddle that sets forth false numbers to throw people down the wrong path...

Three men arrive at a hotel to spend the night. The price for one room is $30, so each man puts in $10. They go up to their room and that's that. A few minutes later, the guy behind the desk realizes that its not $30 for the night, but actually $25. So, the man gives the bellhop $5 to bring back to them. On the way up, the bellhop figures theres no even way to split $5 among 3 people, so he changes it to singles, and gives each man only a dollar back. So in essence, they each spent 9 dollars, together making $27 spent. Add to that the two dollars leftover in the bellhop's pocket, that adds up to only $29 spent. Where did the last dollar they spent go?
The method is not the secret.
Tom Cutts
View Profile
Staff
Northern CA
5815 Posts

Profile of Tom Cutts
Quote:
Three men arrive at a hotel to spend the night. The price for one room is $30, so each man puts in $10. They go up to their room and that's that. A few minutes later, the guy behind the desk realizes that its not $30 for the night, but actually $25. So, the man gives the bellhop $5 to bring back to them. On the way up, the bellhop figures theres no even way to split $5 among 3 people, so he changes it to singles, and gives each man only a dollar back. So in essence, they each spent 9 dollars, together making $27 spent. Add to that the two dollars leftover in the bellhop's pocket, that adds up to only $29 spent. Where did the last dollar they spent go?

This is a better example of verbal misdirection which can work in the written form. As is the classic math problem which is most commonly know through its use by Jerry Lewis in one of the Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis movies.

It is richer and deeper in layers, not just an outright lie written on a page. I do believe that in the real time context of doing Alexandre's experiment, there might be a better chance of getting away with the bold lie, with their minds on the cards and which to turn. But this isn't that application here and to offer the experiment as written above as a teaching tool seems misleading. Many obviously played along. Some did not. Some may say that is because we are trained to know this stuff.

The lesson here is a simple one. If you boldly decide to throw out a lie, especially one which appears to be accidental on your part, in your presentation you are taking the risk of being corrected in real time. Even if the persons who know your lie do not speak up, the illusion is lost on them and they will be in puzzle mode.

I just think this is a very hasty choice of presentation to teach the lesson you believe you are teaching. There are much better examples of "betchas" which much more deceptively use misleading odds (sometimes not mentioning the odds at all) and would have made a better teaching tool.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » New to magic? » » The Black Aces Experiment (0 Likes)
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.27 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL