I'm not talking about underground small release stuff here ok...

What would seem like a fair price to you personally, for an ebook, containing 5 dark magic/traditional mentalism effects?

I know it depends on quality/who releases and so on, but just in general, if you were browsing say lulu.com or elsewhere, and you were kinda undecided whether to take the plunge or not - would the price tip you one way or the other at all?

If so, what would feel like a comfortable price to pay for such a thing?

Price is certainly a factor. I don't think twice about spending $10 on an effect if there's a chance a half decent chance I'll like it.

I think $30 is a fair price for a single good effect. I've paid more in the past, and would continue to pay more if I was really confident in the quality of the effect.

If effects are being lumped together I really only pay attention to what I like. So a book with 5 effects, but only one of which I think I might use will still weigh in around the $30 mark. This goes back to my point the other day where I stated that I prefer books to focus on a particular aspect, whether that be a methodology or an effect.

I think that view can make sense from a marketing perspective as well.

A big factor is the level of information provided in the ad. Getting just basic information on an effect is like pulling teeth here sometimes.

Cynical I am, but I see withholding information about an effect is a sign of a weak effect.

Kris, I totally disagree that "withholding information about an effect is a sign of a weak effect". It's a sign that the seller wants to keep the "secret" protected from guys like you.

What I think is important in an advertisement is how the spectator sees the effect not all kinds of details that lead to how the effect is actually done.

If it's easy, mention easy, if you can borrow a deck, say so, etc.

If you start giving too many details to what you're selling, you may as well give it away.

For instance:

THE ASTONISHING DISCOVERY by Bob Bozo

A spectator quickly shows the faces of a deck of cards (quickly), then riffles the ends and asks a spectator to tell him to stop anywhere. The spectator does so, removing his card from that spot. You instantly tell the spectator what card they chose.

Easy to do.
Must use your own "special" deck.
If you drop the deck it will need to be "arranged" again.
It's not a good idea to have the spectator handle the deck.
Though 52 cards, not "all" cards are different.

Anyone in?

Be honest, when most of us read ads, we're trying to figure out what the heck is the method. That's why all the silly questions on here.

I don't believe in handing it away. Unless you're new to the game, what you're buying is hopefully a fresh presentation with a method you can handle and are comfortable with, and/or, a cool variation on a known or old method.


Would you be interested in these effects (below) based on the description. I won't tell you what they are or who has put them out, but answer truthfully. Also, what questions would you like to ask concerning these routines?

(name withheld)

A shuffled deck is randomly cut by a spectator who memorizes the cut to card. The card is replaced and shuffled back into it's half of the deck. You ask one question and one question only as you spread the upper half of the deck "Is the mate of your card in this half?" At which point you name the memorized card. Remember, the deck is shuffled by a spectator at the beginning. They cut anywhere, even changing their mind if they choose yet you hit every time.


(name withheld)

A card is cut to and secretly remembered. Four other cards are introduced as red herrings, all five are placed on the table as you ask the volunteer to place his shadow over each card, after which you capture his shadow. You then run your hand over the cards and stop on his thought of card. A dramatic piece of simple yet astonishing mentalism.


Based on your posts on here, I'm willing to bet you wouldn't be interested if you knew the methods, because unfortunately that's how you like to look at things. Your bad.

I normally base my purchases on recommendations or just if I like the sound of the material.

A fair price would be around £10-£15 for an Ebook.

Dr.J

5 effects?
Well, it is really difficult to say. It depends on the value of the material inside. And that is a subjective thing.
I think of some of the little books I have bought for about £8 that have 6 or seven pieces in them, then I think of ones that cost about £25 with only about 3 or 3 effects in them. Which are the better value? It depends on which pieces I perform, but I did find more useful work in the more expensive ones I bought. One of the best ones I have was given to me for free.

It is such a difficult thing to judge, I think the best thing to do is judge for yourself and trust your instincts, and possibly ask a few friends who have read it what they feel is a fair price.
Based on what I know of you and your thinking Abraxus, I would be interested.

Another point is that it depends who you are - and in terms of the Café community, the quality of your posts. Therefore, I would absolutely no interest in buying anything released by myself, but I would be interested in anything you were to put out, as you obviously have an interesting mind.
There is a growing community of 'magicians helping magicians' in terms of people putting out their ideas into what is a rather restricted arena for a reasonable price - then using the income generated by their paypal account to feed cash back into the community, by buying someone's material. I think this make for a wonderful and vibrant community. This is why I despise the childish and/or arrogant comments that surface from some of the more immature (and mature lawyers) that pollute these threads with alarming regularity.
If you do release an Ebook - be prepared for a raft of personal attacks - it just seems to be the vile pastime of some of the posters here.
Back to pricing - look to your aims - do you want to make money and retire? Do you want the excitement and mental nourishment of having feedback to your ideas, seeing them developed and used by the community, *whilst* getting a bit of cash back to use for picking up on some other member's thinking?
Well, for me, it is the latter - I enjoy this community, the hype, the intelligence and the creativity. This is why I would not buy "The Thought Channel" - as much as I want it. I have no problem about anyone selling anything they produce at any price they want. It just does not fit my criteria. If I spend 100$ on this that is less money to spread around all the other stuff I want to support.
So - if you want exclusivity, sell high - or look at what your own particular aims are. What do you want to achieve?

Another thing to think about is what is the actual value of the contents - for example I am sure that Jerome's ebook is of great value - this only contributes to my growing nausea. I may save up, but at that price I want to know that it is something I am not already thinking of.

Also, if it is your first publication this should be reflected in the price.

Sean's book is a good example of good pricing. 'Ponderings' is an excellent contribution to our community - Sean sells it for a very modest 30$, yet is packed full of interesting thinking - so I am happy to plug away: http://www.watersmindworks.com .
In the same manner having just bought Katterfelto and found it to be extraordinary value for money. Alexandre, who is getting a lot of uncalled for negativity, whilst continuing to contribute so much to the community; always prices his stuff right. Switchcraft, Entity's stuff, your friend Dr.Todd, Paolo Cavalli all of these would give me guildlines, should the vile day arrive that I want to publish 'The Subgenial Guide to starting a new (underground) religion'. (btw, limited availablity on this one - also, only of use to working performers, will extend the legnth of your genitals - so not suitable for female performers......... etc.etc.)


What ever you decide - good luck with the Ebook - you have an automatic buy from me (as long as it's priced within my range - $10 - $25 for an ebook)

Cheers psychicturtle - or may I call you turtle?

I've had 5 people look through it, it's all been thoroughly performed and "tested" so to speak - someone kindly said "it is all good old fashioned mentalism", and someone else said "Well done you! Keep us laughing and performing with real material for real audiences!"

so I've got confidence in the material itself, one of the effects means you have to go out and buy something non-mentalism related, but that one routine is enough for 20 or so minutes easy...so what you have to pay to get the readily available "thing", the payback as it were, will be you have an entire piece of parlour mentalism to perform that'll pay for itself, and the outcomes can be varied...

so I suppose that's the stumbling block, (before I continue, I'm deliberately not mentioning names/links etc cos I'm honestly trying to get some views on pricing rather than just plugging it - its not even out yet)...

do you think this is fair if I were to put on the adverts (obviously I'm a little vague here as I really don't want it to be seen as a sly advert):
basic knowledge of mentalism is expected
one thing to buy - around 8 quid or so on top the price of the ebook, available on amazon
some bits and pieces to make (that'll take ten minutes of your time)
the use of standard/old school mentalism items

and it covers:
a psychic game of a traditional old board game (involves 3-6 people with you)
a presentation based on how the subconcious works with imagery finishing with "proof"
a journey through victorian london, with your mentalist as your guide, and a strange change that physically manifests itself
a discussion between mentalist and participant with the participant regaining something that was once lost...
an audience member looks at a photograph or painting, and has a conversation with the person in it, and reveals their name...they are correct...

I've had prices given to me from a tenner, up to thirty quid...i think 30 is far too much in some ways, not in others...the best thing is, even if the darker presentations don't suit - they all fit other dressings "subtle influence/suggestion" and so on...

so I really am stuck...oh, and do I just pm the owner of this place to set up a proper advert?

ah such niave questions for a saturday morning...

It really does sound good!
Difficult getting an ad on Penny - Outlaw have it all sown up!

That's a good point, sean's ponderings for fifteen quid in the uk, absolute bargain...and bearing that and switchcraft in mind, it looks like I might have to sell it for 50pence...

initially, I was thinking maybe 10 to 12 quid (up to $24 usa brethren), so that's less than 3 quid per routine...some of its close up, some of it can be used on stage as well as parlour and close-up 1on1 kinda thing, you've got a fair bit of leeway with how/when to present it...

if you're gigging, you can easily link all 5 together and have a portable night's work that'll fit in a small bag...one board game, a couple of pencils, an envelope, some paper and two everyday mentalism devices that, even if you don't own them, will cost you a tenner to buy...

so I'm swinging towards the £10-12 mark at the moment...sound fair?

I think that sounds fair. and by all means call me turtle. Or thom. or tommy, I don't mind.
But yes, $25 would be a good price I think. It sounds very interesting, I'll have a copy.

Good price - count me in.

PayPal at the ready!

Thanks for the mention, gentlemen!

I have already PM'ed Abraxus to tell him that I am in (he's clever and kind, what a combo)!


Sean

... Definately true. I had PM'ed "The Café'" two or three times without a response (since mid-last year). I am not mad or anything. There just must not be any spots.


Sean

Thank you gentlemen...

there's a few little things I need to change, just page layout and some thank-you's to go on, and one final re-check that it all reads correctly - then I'll have it up and about for sale...i'll have to check on here for the ad and what the rules are for posting links and so on...

thanks again - means alot..

I'll support this, put me down for a copy.

basic knowledge of mentalism is expected

This is a bit confusing. Does it mean that the reader needs to have the ability to present the effects properly in terms of stagecraft, or, in terms of physical ability in terms of being able to perform a billet switch or false shuffle. Or does it means that some fundamental knowledge is required and not explained in the text, something a newish mentalism may not be familar with and would need to buy something else to explain the workings. Or all three?

one thing to buy - around 8 quid or so on top the price of the ebook, available on amazon

Useful information, I know some books require this and don't mention it before purchase.

some bits and pieces to make (that'll take ten minutes of your time)

If it only takes a few minutes, and therefore I assume, not too difficult to do, I wouldn't bother mentioning it.

the use of standard/old school mentalism items

This could include many various items... NW, IMP device, TT, ESP cards, blindfold, s. slates, add number pad, etc. Unless it requires something expensive or unusual I wouldn't bother.

___ * ___ * ___ * ___


People are suspicious of ad copy. Whatever you say, people will magnify it in their minds. People know that out of 5 effects there will probably be 1 they really like and will use, 2 they like and may use, 1 they quite like but probably won't use and 1 they don't like at all. Reader ability and items they own will vary but the effects liked/done should balance out. Unless rare knowledge or props are required, I don't think you need mention it.

and it covers: ***I know you're just giving a guide but here's comments if it was actual ad copy


a psychic game of a traditional old board game (involves 3-6 people with you)

Sounds interesting.

a presentation based on how the subconcious works with imagery finishing with "proof"

Too vague to get a good idea of the effect.

a journey through victorian london, with your mentalist as your guide, and a strange change that physically manifests itself

Sounds interesting.

a discussion between mentalist and participant with the participant regaining something that was once lost...

Less vague than the other but still not sufficient to get a good idea of the effect.

an audience member looks at a photograph or painting, and has a conversation with the person in it, and reveals their name...they are correct.

Sounds good.

If the price was... I would assume the following:

>$5.99 the author isn't that confident in the effects and wants to cover his back later by saying "well it was only five bucks!"

$6.00-$10.99 Probably 1 OK effect backed up with some lesser ones.

$11.00-$15.99 Some solid thinking, probably 2 or 3 good effects.

$16.00-$20.99 The author believes these effects are pretty special.

$21.00+ As above but more work and effort has gone into the book.

I would class "basic knowledge of mentalism is expected" meaning having studied 13 steps, and annemann's work, and has at least performed to at least one stranger at some point (however successfully)...

and yeah, I've kept thing a little vague, until I write the full ad copy and get an ad posted up here...

all props would be found in 13 steps, and no imp boards required...

from the feedback I've had from some trusted sources, it seems to be heading to a little over 20 dollars...mainly cos:

I've only released one effect (but its sold well)
there's some other things on the horizon
the guy that I've co-written it with hasn't released his material before

so taking that into account, I'm thinking around $25 or so...i'll need to discuss it with him soon, but thank you to all for the feedback...

I'm lookin forward to the release!

Just chucking a random personal insight in here!

I have only once bought an eBook. It's something odd about myself that I want to hold a real thing. But then again, I'm odd like that.

A couple of weeks ago, I was in a real spending mood, and I have been tempted by Tomo's Naked Book Test for a while, so I went, ho-hum, and bought it. A steal at only ten pounds. Printed it off, and put it into a display folder, for the additional cost of one pound. Perhaps I'm less turned off by eBooks now.

Nonetheless, the way my mind works is thus: I will consider buying a single effect if it is propped or perfectly impromptu at the approximate marker of £10. Couple of quid either way. Fifteen pounds, I start to be more wary, but if I've heard a lot of good stuff, or like the thinking of those who I'm buying from, then I will pay this for one effect. Maybe. Rarely, but maybe.

When it gets to about £20, I'm expecting a bit more: a large selection of effects, or a mass of thinking. I'm aware that this leaves me with very little of the top-flight amazing stuffs, but I'm a student and therefore more money must go on alcohol.

I've been brought up on Royal Road, and similarly priced books, so I am used to getting a lot for my cashes. (And Sankey DVDs too, which I advertise a bit less.)

However, for five different and somewhat off the wall effects, I think that the £15-20 marker is perfect.

The Victorian London one interests me muchly.