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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » You Oughta Be In Pictures » » A little mentalism effect of mine (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Athos
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I'm not an expert at filming an editting, I would like to put subtitles because it's in french. I removed the presentation part because you would skip it anyway.

Tell me what you think!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwI3U4siONI

~Athos
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Thomas Wayne
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You flashed pretty badly on the addition at the beginning.

TW
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cosmicsecret
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Quote:
On 2008-01-20 20:30, Thomas Wayne wrote:
You flashed pretty badly on the addition at the beginning.

TW

Yes,very badly!
You should master this sleight first before taping it and putting it on youtube.

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Ben Train
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I don't have the benefit of hearing the routine, so this may be addressed, but fundementally it is flawed.

If the effect is that they remove five cards and chose one, and somehow the one they choose is the only one with a red back and the five cards he choose initially were the only ones with faces from a blank deck (Whew!) then it's either-

a) a trick about his psychic/intuitive powers which means the card he picks changing to have a red back (which is what happens- it doesn't have a red back, then it does) makes no sense. Or

b) you change the card he picks into a red card, then make the rest of the deck vanish, and the trick sucks.

I'm not one of those fussypots who thinks an effect can't have a lot of whacky stuff happening, but my instinct here is that there is simply to much going on in this effect.

If you DO have a presentation that addresses this, I would LOVE to hear it (french or not!)

Ben
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Thomas Wayne
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I'm thinking the effect can be described as this:

Spectator chooses five cards at random, and then chooses one of those five cards at random. It turns out that the final card he chose is the only card with a red back (among a sea of blue backs), AND the initial five cards he chose are the only ones with faces. I agree that the color change is a ill-advised feature, and it would be better if the final choice matched a prediction (or some other such nonsense).

So - barring the inadvisable color change just mentioned - it really could be a fairly pure psychic effect, just not a particularly well constructed one (IMO)

TW
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Curtis Kam
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This is pretty obviously based on the Vernon Five Card Mental Force which is a percentage thing in most hands. In a recent Genii article, David Regal (or was it Acer--too many Davids in magic--rule out Blaine, Copperfield, Roth, Williamson and Neighbors, though) asked "Does this thing Ever Work?"

So my question is--suppose your spectator never heard of the "Curse of Scotland" and picks the Nine? If you've got all five outs covered, then fine. But I kinda doubt it.

And flashing issues aside, I'd suggest you re-read the original write up of the Vernon trick. Part of the psychology that makes it work depends on the idea that you have carefully selected these five cards for a reason. You have to engage the critical thinking of the spectator. By adding sleights just to create the illusion that these are five random cards, you are "shooting yourself in the foot", as we say in this country.
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Athos
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Ok thanks, I will try to do it in english, and I realised that the color change has no sence, Maybe I will place the red backed card to the side and I will tell them that I will mix the red card with the blue and I will try to force them to select the red backed card. Would it make more sence?

Also the effect was based on ''coincidences or miracles'' type of patter. I will work on it and post again. Thanks for your help and honest critique!
~Athos
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«How much of a gift it would be to really know what someone is thinking of?»
- Steeve Blanchet, news anchor, TVA
«Here is someone that truly uses his powers for good.»
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Ben Train
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Athos,

Thomas had a GREAT idea. Instead of using a red backed card, have a red backed PREDICTION left inside the card box. The nice thing is that if you use Mr. Frame's suggestion and it DOESN'T work, you don't need to show the prediction and can simply show that somehow, inexplicably, they choose they only five cards from a blank deck.

That said, the trick pales in comparison to thinks like Blizzard or even the following-

Tell someone you need them to think of a card. Riffle force/dribble force the card card. Deck placed in their hand. Read their mind. Say you will make the card vanish from the deck. Snap (wiggle, salsa, whatever) and show something went wrong- you made EVERY card vanish except theirs!

Anyway, keep playing with the idea!
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Thomas Wayne
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Quote:
On 2008-01-21 05:43, Curtis Kam wrote:
This is pretty obviously based on the Vernon Five Card Mental Force which is a percentage thing in most hands. In a recent Genii article, David Regal (or was it Acer--too many Davids in magic--rule out Blaine, Copperfield, Roth, Williamson and Neighbors, though) asked "Does this thing Ever Work?"

So my question is--suppose your spectator never heard of the "Curse of Scotland" and picks the Nine? If you've got all five outs covered, then fine. But I kinda doubt it.
[...]


Ah yes... but what if, instead of relying on their first choice - hit or bust - you take a little time to become skilled in equivoque? Do that, and then when you say (for example): "Please touch any card... any card at all" and they miss the force, you go on to say (without missing a beat): "... and now, with your other hand please touch any other card...", and so on.

Problem solved?

TW
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Thomas Wayne
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Quote:
On 2008-01-21 07:56, Athos wrote:
Ok thanks, I will try to do it in English, and I realized that the color change has no sense, Maybe I will place the red backed card to the side and I will tell them that I will mix the red card with the blue and I will try to force them to select the red backed card. Would it make more sense?
[...]


Only if you think jokes are funniest when you lead with the punchline.

TW
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Athos
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Bassically the effect is a mixture of idea from Jay Sankey Lottery as well as the force from psychological subleties by Banachek.

I love the Idea of the prediction in the box! I'm going to change the whole effect to that optic.

I alredy thought of an out ( The magician choice ) it's a bit less straighforward, but it's an out.

But I prefered the out of Bentrain, The fact that you don't say what is going to happen let you handle the prediction if it's not right, also the box can be handed out for examination. Another idea would be to have another out in your wallet, the 9 of diamonds is choosen often.

Thanks for you help and time! I will re-shoot something different, I will hopefully find a way to add sub-titles with WMM.

~Athos
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«How much of a gift it would be to really know what someone is thinking of?»
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«Here is someone that truly uses his powers for good.»
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Ben Train
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Hey Thomas,

As I mentioned, Tom Stone (I might have said Frame) has discussed this, and I agree with him.

Using an out just dilutes the effect, and makes it not worth performing. If it hits, great. If not, put it away. How do you structure the routine so this would work? Tom has his methods, and you might want to explore this.

In your routine, if it hits, great. Show prediction. If it doesn't show that they picked the only 5 cards that had printing.

But, again, I don't think it's a good use of so many tools.

Ben
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James Alan
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The force you are using for the red card is Vernon's. I listened to the dialogue in French. Gary Ouellet attempted to do the exact same thing as you did when he demonstrated it on the Revelations tapes (perhaps some kind person will interject with which volume) and Vernon said he was doing it all wrong. The correct method of forcing is given in the tapes along with the story of how the effect came to be.

I enjoy how the colour changing back was sold a mental effect.
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Athos
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So someone else has done something similar than I did?

~Athos
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«How much of a gift it would be to really know what someone is thinking of?»
- Steeve Blanchet, news anchor, TVA
«Here is someone that truly uses his powers for good.»
- David Meclomesnil, weekend radio.
Ben Train
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Well, the concept of having someone pick a card from 5 and it being odd backed is, as I'm sure you know, Vernon's Five Card Mental Force from his $20 Manuscript. It has been republished and tweaked in numerous sources (usually trying to figure out an out for when it doesn't work).

The way you have it structured is, as far as I know, new. But, this is because it's not the best way to approach it.
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michaelmystic2003
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Tom Frame also released a similar concept.
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Athos
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I just re-read Banachek Psychological Subtletie and it does states that it is vernon concept.

~Athos.
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«How much of a gift it would be to really know what someone is thinking of?»
- Steeve Blanchet, news anchor, TVA
«Here is someone that truly uses his powers for good.»
- David Meclomesnil, weekend radio.
tomcards
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Athos,

Check out my effect, "Psyboards", from the September 2005 issue of MAGIC. Many informed card men consider it to be the most foolproof handling of Vernon's "Five Card Mental Force".

Tom Frame
RevJohn
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Quote:
On 2008-01-21 05:43, Curtis Kam wrote:
In a recent Genii article, David Regal (or was it Acer--too many Davids in magic--rule out Blaine, Copperfield, Roth, Williamson and Neighbors, though) asked "Does this thing Ever Work?"


It was Acer, and he reprinted it in his book, "Random Acts of Magic," under the chapter title of, "The Five Card Mental Farce."

RevJohn
tomcards
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"Psyboards" is also on Josh Jay's Talk About Tricks DVD set.

Tom Frame
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