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toomuchmagic
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We mock the teenagers and send them back to their own drawing boards when they come out and openly honestly ask for lines, patter, routine ideas.

but some of you are looking for others to write your routines for you under the guise of a "creative exercise" and that is cool?

Seems lame to me. (Not to mention the lameness of the stuff some of you come up with. gag)
Lyndel
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If one does not wish to participate in an online brainstorming session, one certainly is not mandated nor should feel obligated in any way to click on that particular thread.

Take a look at the Magic Café logo... Notice the part about "Magicians Helping Magicians?" That's what it's all about my friend...

By the way if there are any teenagers reading this who are honestly seeking suggestions, patter line ideas, or routine concepts, there are many regulars here on the Café, myself included, that will be more than willing to assist if at all possible. Just ask!


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magic4u02
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Toomuchmagic:

I am sorry but I feel you may have the wrong idea about creativity exercises and those that are posted here. I do a full lecture called "Encore! Creativity in the art of magic!" and have lectured with it at the past SAM National Convention. This is in no way aimed at tooting my own horn. It is simply to show I have a passion for creativity and helping magicians to beocme more creative thinkers. This is what I preach and practice and study.

Part of bring a better creative thinker is surrounding yourself with other creative people. Creativity exercises stem from the notion of brainstorming. You get a bunch of people together to share ideas and thoughts and tips and work together at it. Through the process of doing, better creative ideas come forth. We all learn and we all grow. This in my mind is never a bad thing at all.

It is NOT about stealing ideas. It is not about being "lame" or having others think for you. That is not what it is about at all. It is a learning process that we can go through to help each other be a more creative thinker of magic.

Like anything, creativity has to be learned and it has to be "exercised". If you do not exercise your mind, then your creativity lacks. Doing exercises like this and sharing thoughts and ideas with others is a healthy way to exercise the mind and to keep you fresh. The more you do it, the better at it you become.

I can not speak for anyone else, but I never mock teenagers or anyone that is involved in learning the art of magic. That is why I have taught magic for kids ages 7-17 in the Society of Young Magicians for well over 15 years now. If anyone at all has an interest in magic, they can come to me and I will spend time assisting them in any way that I can. That means on technique or creativity as well. If anyone has the sincere desire to want to earn, I am there to offer assistance.

I can assure you that folks like Lyndel and myself and Harris are not posting creativity exercises because we want others to do work for us. I can not speak for anyone else but I can speak for Lyndel and Harris since they are good friends of mine. We all strongly believe in the power of "magicians helping magicians". We also believe in the notion that to be a creative entertainer, one must always never stop learning. We enjoy sharing ideas openly with others because that is how we all learn.

Too many magicians do not work enough on creativity or pay any real attention to it. These exercises on the Café are a way to get others to try it and to get people understanding how creativity works through the process of doing and sharing.

Hope this helps.

Kyle
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Magic Enhancer
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Yeah. It is a ay for us to share our information. We would give advice, lines of patter, etc and if it belongs to someone, many of the times we would let them know that. We don't encourage stealing or plagiarism. Does it happen, Yes. But to get one's head thinking creatively is what will make them come up with their own bits of business, etc. It's always good study successful peoplel- That will let you understand the "formula"for success.

Robert Haas
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magic4u02
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Exactly. It is proof that every major successful company becomes successful not by themselves but because of the power of brainstroming and working together as a team.

It has also been proven that every successful adevrtising campaign or creative commercial does not get created by one person sitting behind a desk behind closed doors.

Successful and creative people work together and share thoughts and ideas in brainstorm sessions. That is how ideas start to flow and one idea stems from another one before it. You become a better thinker by exercising your creative mind with others.

Kyle
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MagicSanta
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Tis a shame so many 'magicians helping magicians' are giving out a helping of bad information, nonsense, and yes, lame performing ideas. Some information I've seen here is helping magicians find other interest.
magic4u02
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I am sorry you feel that way. Certainly not every idea expressed in a brainstorming session is a good one or a valid one to be used. It is up to you the performer to take the ideas and the thoughts presented and run with them to make them something better YOU can use. Use them as ajumping off point if nothing more. Only you know your own creative performing style.

Also remember that creativity and brainstorming is not always geared at producing workable solutions. In many ways it is geared towards training the mind to learn to think more creatively over a period of time. Creativity is not something you just snap your fingers and have. You have to work at it. If you want to get stronger you exercise and work out. If you want to be more creative, you must learn to do the same thing. You must start exercising your mind.

Also keep in mind that often great ideas or beautiful works of art start with a very simple concept or idea that by itself may not seem all that special at all. However through refinement and thinking that simple shape or idea gets transformed into a beautiful thing called art.

Edison himself went through over 900 different filaments before finding the one that would work best for his lighbulb. He even first used sewing thread. Thread by itself seems pretty lame but it was one of the first times he actually produced beautiful light from it.

Just my opinion is all. We are each entitled to our own and I can respect that.

Kyle
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MagicSanta
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I'm not talking about brainstorming sessions, follow the bouncing ball...I'm refering to totality. Luckily, young Kyle, you are one of the good ones, tad bit long winded but a good one none the less.
Lyndel
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Check out this site! I think the last four sentences under "step #3" are particularly relevant to this conversation... http://www.jpb.com/creative/brainstorming.php

In fact, if one does a Google search for brainstorming, on just about every list of steps, it recommends that no idea be criticized or belittled because in the end, it could be the key to sparking a solution to the problem.

Alfred Nobel (of Nobel Prize fame and ironically, the inventor of dynamite) once said, "If I have a thousand ideas and only one turns out to be good, I am satisfied."

It's our responsibility as performers to review ALL IDEAS and possibilities and choose what will work best for EACH of us individually.




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harris
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Yes during the brainstorming process..the "Judge" should not be present...

(from A whack in the side of the head...)

My poipose..of adding to and recently starting an exercise...is for the benefit of others as well as to give myself.."A kick in the seat of the pants".

One of my favorite "gigs" is my workshops on puppets and the elements of comedy for middle school drama students.

On the other hand..(to play devils advocate...my wife cringed when I said "speak of the devil" when a friend we were talking about/kindly, walked into the church coffee spot.) you are write some of us have been less than kind to younger in age and experience....

Harris "too old to know everything" deutsch
laughologist who use to take himself way to sewiously..and was all wrapped up in Harris which made a very small package..said Nigel the Puppet that Rocks...
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MagicSanta
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Y'all are setting policies for brainstorming? Oh lawdy!
magicgeorge
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Oh, I'm glad Santa wasn't referring to the brainstorming posts in his original remark. You did kind of change the direction of the ball without telling us. Policies for brain-storming nyuck nyuk. Harris' policy was no judge so that was really a policy against policies...

Of course TMM's remark about asking for routine ideas under a different guise is completely ludicrous considering the originaters of the posts were Kyle and Harris who are two of the most helpful and creative guys around here. They've helped so many on here if they do ask for help there'll be a queue so they don't have to resort to underhand methods!

I did chuckle when I read the original post, though. Fair play for saying what you felt...you'd be a great brain-stormer!

If anything I feel the brain-storming posts are not lame enough! For me brainstorming is about writing down everything and anything and picking out the good bits and rinse and repeat. I need a whole bucket of dreary dross to produce a few shining nuggets.

George
toomuchmagic
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I have no problem with what you all are doing. I am just lost on my never ending quest for consistency.

I have seen so many times, some one eager to learn and looking for a place to start...who gets totally shot down and berated for not using the forum search.

And this, be it a creative exercise or not, is essentially asking the same question in a different phrasing and everyone plays along hunky dory fun fun hop scotch bad poems and unnecessary parenthetical cues. (looks at screen and barfs.)

My opinion...we should help at all times. Not just when the creative mustachioed man initiates it
magicgeorge
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If you're going on a quest it should be for something worthwhile, like gold or a chalice. Don't go on a quest for consistency, that's just daft.

What does parenthetical mean?

George
kimmo
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Quote:
On 2008-01-30 05:07, magicgeorge wrote:


What does parenthetical mean?

George


I've no idea George! (shrugs and scratches head)
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Lyndel
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Quote:
On 2008-01-30 05:07, magicgeorge wrote:
If you're going on a quest it should be for something worthwhile, like gold or a chalice. Don't go on a quest for consistency, that's just daft.

What does parenthetical mean?

George


Occasional amusing content and heavy use of parentheses.



(Lyndel)
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Magic Enhancer
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Robert Haas
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LMAO Lyndel. You really are too funny.

Robert Haas
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magic4u02
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What is scary is he probably did not even have to think about that answer. hehehe Nice one Lyndel. =)
You should start a thread on made up magic terms and what their real meanings are. hehehe

Kyle
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harris
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Harris Deutsch
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One of my most interesting awards was during my years at the RenFest..

It was the Seridipity Award...

I had to look it up in the dictionary....

Serendipti ..Serendipitous....oh what fun it is to play with words...and minds...

Harris "A former legend in his own mime" Deutsch
The artist formerly known as Mime over Matter...

with tongue somewhere near my cheek...
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
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toomuchmagic
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I don't mean to interrupt the back patting... but

...my next step is to go here...

Using a paper plate as a steering wheel and using the stratosphere with a traffic light theme is the antithesis of creativity.

Posted: Jan 31, 2008 12:27am
Quote:


On 2008-01-30 09:29, magic4u02 wrote:
What is scary is he probably did not even have to think about that answer. hehehe Nice one Lyndel. =)
You should start a thread on made up magic terms and what their real meanings are. hehehe

Kyle


I think your mustache is pulling on your brain. Please make a meager attempt to consult a dictionary before calling a word made up. It will possibly keep you from looking a fool.
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