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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Finger/stage manipulation » » Do you have any questions about the Misers Dream? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Levent
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Dear Fellow Magicians:

I am currently in the middle of pre-production work for my new instructional DVD, which will be titled "The Ultimate Guide to the Misers Dream". Those of you who have seen my previous DVDs ("The Potassy-Wave Deck", "Super Salt Pour Gimmick" and "Manipulation Act") are no doubt aware that I go through great lengths to fully explain, the histories and techniques of not only my versions of the tricks, but many of the techniques of the master magicians of the distant past.

Needless to say I will do my best to give the "Misers Dream" an even greater comprehensive treatment. In order to provide the magic community the best possible educational resource, I would like to hear from any magicians if there is any technical aspect of the Misers Dream effect that gives them trouble or any part of the trick that they feel has not been fully explained in previous books or DVDs.

If all goes to plan, I should begin principal photography of the project on February 15, 2008. Please feel free to post your replies on this thread at the Magic Café or if you choose you can send me a "Private Message" at the Magic Café or you can send me an e-mail through my website.

Needless to say if your comment or suggestion is one that I have not previously considered or one that I deem especially useful, I will be happy to include your name on the DVD credits and send you a complimentary copy of the video when the project is completed.

Best regards,
Levent
cardone
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Are you going to talk about the different types of coin ladders? I am always fascinated by the different auto droppers like the wand and string method and the rotator wind up motor. I have been doing a misers dream in my act for a long time now and I use an coffee can. I have been trying to come up with a method to do the across the stage invisible toss and have a few coins "land" in the can. The project sound like a good one ...good luck ....
hugmagic
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Sam Berland always pitched the #10 can for his pail. It does have a great sound.

I think things to need to better explained how to pace and sell the routine. Pat Page's work is good and the best I have seen but it is not in depth.

Also, the difference between using real money, palming coins, type of metal in the coins (brass, aluminum, etc).

I think the use of the coin wand is limited but should be included. The only good reference to a routine on using it is Bobo's.

Maybe a mention of how others have conclued their act or the general paceing, routining, etc. of Downs, Shaw, Frankson, Ramsey, etc.. They have been written up but the sources take a lot of work to put them all together.

There I've given you enough ideas for volume 2. And I still have to get that special DVD to you. I keep wanting to include one other guy on the thing but I can't find the original tape yet.

Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
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SpellbinderEntertainment
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Part of the allure of the Miser's Dream is that it uses "real" money,
and people are always interested in their money multiplying
(especially around April 15th).

The sad part, is that silver-dollars and half-dollars
are NO longer "everyday objects"
in fact, the younger generation has not even seen or been exposed to them!

One way around this is to use Las Vegas gambling chips,
THEY are still immediately recognizable and represent money.

The other thinking,
would be to use our "largest current coin" that's quarters...
while a quarter does not have a lot of value, a bunch of them still do,
and make the effect more realistic and still use everyday objects.

So, it would be fantastic if someone would create an up-to-date presentation,
which uses our current quarters, but still might work for parlor or even stage.

I do believe Magic Inc still makes and carries Charlie Miller's "Bell Bucket"
while ungimmicked, it was a dream to hold and use, and as it was heavy and spun,
it made a beautiful resounding "Bling!!!!" ring as each coin hit!

The sound was magical and made the effect germane even in huge spaces,
where only the glint of the coin and the wonderful ring/clangs would be heard.

Magically,
Walt
cheesewrestler
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The salt pour dvd was excellent!

but ... MD routines go on for longer than SP routines, there are more events taking place in the MD routine, there are so many things to consider before one even begins to develop the MD routine - what receptacle, gimmick(s) or none, if gimmick(s) which one(s) ... presentation: comic or serious or a bit of both ...

... the MD is as big a subject as the linking rings or the cups & balls, really.

you might do better to write a book, actually, than to try & cover the MD in a video.
Lou Hilario
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I learned the Miser's Dream from Henry Hay's "Amateur Magician's Handbook" and Patrick Page's "Big Book of Magic".
My question is: Are there other deceptive ways to obtain loads aside from the books mentioned. Of particular interest are steals other than body loads.
Secondly, is there a way to make the coins thinner.
And lastly, I would like to know other ways to end this effect, if any.
Good Luck on your project!
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Pete Biro
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Joe Porper has a version using a cocktail shaker and Quarters for bar/close up situations. It is heavily gaffed. However xx years ago I used a cocktail shaker as it was easy to pack and the coins made a great sound. You know Pat Page created the "chest" for Fred Kaps' great version. Levent, PM me for the work on it. Also Pat's way of getting the load and a way I learned from Frances Willard (very slick).
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
abercrombe
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I used to do this effect up until my motorcycle accident. It took me almost two years to get my hand to be more flexible. I have four metal plates in my right arm and my bones are fused at the elbow, which prevent me from turning my wrist. I can get a dollar size coin into the downs palm, but it takes great effort. Maybe you can give ideas of other ways of performing this for those who are physically impaired.
Best
Abe
Levent
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Please forgive the omnibus reply, as I have been traveling internationally and my Internet access has been sporadic and it is easier to do this as a single post!

CARDONE - Yes, I will discuss coin ladders to a small extent and explain their history, but I will primarily concentrate on versions of the trick that involve coins and a receptacle such as a bucket or a hat.

RICHARD HUGHES - I will have all of that stuff covered. The material, tips, sleights, ideas and history that are on my list is quite huge. I really have no idea how long the video will be until I have shot all of the material. Then edited it. So this project could very well fill three or more DVDs. I just won't know until it is completed.

Regarding the promised DVD, I thank you in advance for your kindness.

By the way, here's a horror story to tell. Three months ago, while disembarking a cruise ship (I will keep the ship and the name of the port anonymous), the union baggage handlers accidentally dropped the suitcase containing my act into the ocean. Needless to say the damage the saltwater did to my props and electronic items (video camera, minidisk recorder, microphone) was enormous. Luckily I kept the feather flowers from your "Worlds Fastest Trick" in a watertight clear plastic tube otherwise my loss would have been a lot worse. Eventually, I was financially compensated. But I had to spend an entire week overhauling all my equipment and fortunately I had that week off. I have decided to make a complete back copy of my act in case it gets lost or damaged again! So, I am glad I purchased that extra flower trick from you!

WALT ANTHONY - I also love the Charlie Miller Bell Bucket. I use it in a lot of my demonstrations and I think you would be hard pressed to find a better bucket for sleight of hand versions of the misers dream.

Personally, I perform the misers dream regularly in theaters that seat over 1300 people, so for me Silver Dollars are a must! I will touch upon the use of quarters and a tip that will allow them to be more effective on stage.

CHEESEWRESTLER - I cannot agree with you more! A misers dream book would be better. And if you can find the essay titled "In Favor of Books by Levent" which I wrote in the August 2002 issue of MAGIC, you can see that for many reasons I prefer books to videos.

The problem is that I have too much to say about the Misers Dream and if this were a book it would probably be way too thick. My performing career is such that I just can't devote my time to another big book project like Roy Benson by Starlight (which took me 2 1/2 years and a lot of gray hairs). So practically speaking, if I made the decision to put this in a book it would never be completed. But as a DVD, I really feel I can get this thing done, in a reasonable amount of time. There are other reasons for doing this project, but I'll save my explanation for another day.

LOU HILARIO:

The answers to your questions are YES! LOL

PETE BIRO:

Thanks Pete, I'll e-mail you as soon as I get a chance! Also, I'll be performing at the Comedy Magic Club of Hermosa Beach from August 19th - 23rd. Perhaps we can meet up when I am in LA?


Best regards to all,
Levent
TheAmbitiousCard
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I'm looking forward to your DVD. Great news.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
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Pete Biro
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Definitely want to see you.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
cardone
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I have been waiting for a book on stage coin magic history and tricks my whole life.... Miser's dream , Robert-Houdin's flying coins, 3 fly, etc.... But a video on Miser's dream done by a pro stage magician will be fantastic!
Jon Royer
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Levent,

Have you considered utilizing information on a very large amount of coins like the information found in Geoffrey Buckingham's "It's easier than you think". I have never had the opportunity of seeing someone produce 70 coins like in his routine entitled 'The Aerial Treasury'.

There is also some nice moves and a few tips on the Miser's Dream and a finale to it in Arthur Buckley's "Principles and Deceptions".

Hopefully this helps.

Jon Royer
hugmagic
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WOW...what a horror story on the disembarking. I think I might have jumped in after it. What a (pardon the expression) sinking feeling. Know that if need ever arises, I will do whatever I can to get replacement stuff to you. Pros are always first.

BTW.David Alexander might be willing to impart some of the Frakson knowledge he has. He is in Chicago now.

Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
inhumaninferno
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Levent,

I think a compare and contrast of gimmicked buckets/pails/containers and non-gimmicked buckets/etc. Ease of use, pitfalls, best sounding, etc. How about a look at the logic or illogic of using a bucket to hold coins? Historical references? Subconsciously related to the "pot of gold at the end of the rainbow?"

Perhaps a look at obtaining loads from: the "bucket", from the body, and from the table or other sources.

An overview of suitable "coins" for large stage use--which have the best weight, appearance and sound.

Use of glasses in conjunction with the "bucket". How about the use of bottles as a logical tie in to the "bucket" i.e. to chill wine or champagne which naturally leads to the use of glasses with the bottle?

Not that I'm tied to logic or making sense, this is magic after all.

Staging tips for the Miser's Dream on a large stage. Making sure the coins are heard dropping in your glass, bucket or receptacle--options with this.

Lighting so those coins are seen.

How about ideas as to creating a plot with the routine and not simply "hey, look I'm grabbing a bunch of money out of thin air". Not that that is not appealing and something everyone would like to do, but rather inserting additional motivations in your action and working with subtext(s) in the routine and how it can improve the routine both for the audience and your presentation of same.

The above can be linked to additional "adds" to the routine--opening sequences, segues, introduction of other effects/prop effects that add to the routine and lead you and the audience to the conclusion.

How about patter versus pantomime routines.

Venue appropriate routines and audience appropriate routines--from street to banquet to stage to large stage----from kids to teens to adults to sophisticates?

Bit of business, use of comedy in misers dream, and I'll stop there.

Good Luck Levent. And I'm looking forward to exploring your work more. Your salt pour routine and gimmick are first on my list. Benson book will be added to my library by summer.

Thanks for your efforts,

John J.
soleil
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Hi Levent,
I think that it would be nice if you could suggest different endings/finales for the Miser's dream routine. It's not easy to finish big or to have some strong finale so the audience will be sure that's the end of the routine.
Good luck for your project,
Best,
Soleil
"Art is the Artist. The Artist is God."- Goete
ASW
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Quote:
On 2008-02-03 22:10, Levent wrote:
The problem is that I have too much to say about the Misers Dream and if this were a book it would probably be way too thick. My performing career is such that I just can't devote my time to another big book project like Roy Benson by Starlight (which took me 2 1/2 years and a lot of gray hairs). So practically speaking, if I made the decision to put this in a book it would never be completed.


And we are all the poorer for it. Any book you write is destined to be amongst the great texts in magic. I feel very sorry that you won't be writing another book - your last book made me remember why I love magic again.

I was discussing the Benson book the other day with Darwin Ortiz and we both couldn't say enough about what a wonderful legacy it will become. To me the book is a double whammy - you get the fantastic insights of Roy Benson's thinking on effect construction and performance and then ON TOP OF THAT you get history and terrific analysis from someone who has a long established experience of performing - a real pro. For anyone who has worked professionally, Levent's real world understanding and philosophy just leaps from the page.

In my experience it is very rare to read a book about magic written by a real working pro, rather than a professional convention lecturer with part-time pro experience (at best).

I'm thinking of taking a cruise with my family that Levent is working so I can whine and whine until he relents.
Whenever I find myself gripping anything too tightly I just ask myself "How would Guy Hollingworth hold this?"

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"I would respect VIPs if they respect history."

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Paul Jester
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Please give Pat Page a call, he has some great bits and methods that are unpublished (he showed me a great coin production).

Also Sol Stone's method for dropping coins while holding the handle of the bucket in Tarbell 7 or 8 is hugely over looked by magicians and is a wonderful method.

Also it would be good to see different holders, and how to steal from pockets (we all have our favourites, but it's always good to see other peoples).

I'd love to see what the great Al Flosso's routine was like, being so young I've only heard of it and not seen it.

Good luck! I love all your other work, and I'm looking forward to this, especially as I already work the Misers Routine.

Paul
Levent
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Hi Guys:

Here is another omnibus reply ( I should be home soon and will have regular internet access again).

ABERCROMBE:

My DVD will be pretty broad with regards to the moves that can be performed with the coins. In fact there are many moves that I know that most of you have never seen nor heard of before. Furthermore, I am not afraid to cover the use of secret gimmicks. The thing to keep in mind here is that the misers dream is a FAR more complex and diverse effect that most modern day magician realize. Therefore once a person is aware of how broad the Misers Dream palette is then one is more apt to find moves that they can do, even with some physical impairment.

FRANK STARSINI

Thanks and I look forward to shooting this DVD as soon as possible.

PETE:

Yes, we should definitely meet up when I perform in LA.

CARDONE

Yes, you have it completely correct.

At its core the study of the Misers Dream is essentially the study of how to do coin sleights on stage.

Personally, I know a bit about close-up magic. But my real area of expertise is the performance of sleight of hand on a large stage.

JON ROYER

Yes, I am very familiar with the work of Geoffrey Buckingham and Arthur Buckley, having studied their books since I was 12 years old. There is a lot of great stuff in their writing, But, having seen their Misers Dream routines I feel that some of their work should be approached with caution. Remember the key to the trick is to make the small coins play big!

RICHARD HUGHES:

I would never ask David Alexander for the work on Frakson. But I am continually hopeful that he will someday produce a book or a video about his mentor. That said, I will of course discuss the Frakson pail on the DVD and present my take on the prop!

Incidentally I did try to reach David a few times last week (about a different matter) and my emails were returned as undeliverable. If you happen to have his new e-mail address please sent it to me privately.

INHUMANINFERNO

Yes much of what you mentioned will be covered to some extent.

But please bear in mind this will not be an encyclopedia of the misers dream! I will avoid the demonstration of moves and ideas that I consider bad magic. I will mosty show what I consider the best the trick has to offer. In some cases I will show some sleights and gimmicks that I am not crazy about, but I do this for historical reasons and in order to show the great creative lengths that the magicians of the past went through for this fantastic effect.

SOLEIL

The finale for the Misers Dream is usually one of the most difficult parts of the trick (in terms of creativity). It is fascinating to study the various misers finales of the past greats of magic
cheesewrestler
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Quote:
On 2008-02-11 14:23, Paul Jester wrote:

I'd love to see what the great Al Flosso's routine was like, being so young I've only heard of it and not seen it.



It's on youtube, just type in Flosso.
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