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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Dispelling notion of marked cards in MD effects (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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todsky
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From the little knowledge I have of mem/stack card effects, it seems that spectators may jump to the (wrong) conclusion that the cards must be marked. How does one dispel this notion, aside from having spec minutely examine the cards?
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kosmoshiva
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Depends upon the routine (card calling, for instance, wouldn't really clue marked cards), but the obvious advice is: don't look at the cards.
Don't forget to breathe.
Dennis Loomis
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I have adopted the Gene Anderson Si Stebbins routine (available from Gene on his web site) for use with the Aronson Stack. As a part of this routine I raise the issue of marked cards myself, only to dispel the notion. I'm claiming that I can hear each of the card individually by running my thumb down the side of the deck and listening. I hear the missing selection (which has not been returned). After doing this a couple of times, I say: "Some people think the cards must be marked, and I'd like to show you something to disprove that." I then have a person name any number from 1 to 52 and I say: "Let's see if I can hear the card at that position in the deck." I then run my thumb down the side of the deck while holding the cards to my ear, and name the card. And then I say: "You realize that if the card is at that position, marks on the card wouldn't help at all, because I can't see the back of that card. Let's see if I was right... watch closely as I count down to the card." I then count down to the card and reveal that I was right.

This works to dispel the notion of marks, and is much better than stopping your set and letting people look minutely at the back. Besides, we know that most laypeople couldn't find any marks even if they were there.

This routine is often my opening with a memdeck, and gets the notion of marked cards off the table right away.

Dennis Loomis

P.S. Interestingly, I do sometimes work with a memorized and marked deck, and this same sequence works to dispel the notion of marks just as well.
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Billgussen
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For card-calling effects, it seems to me that you can go a long way to dispelling the marked deck idea by turning your back while the card is pulled and examined or by wearing a blindfold (gimmicked or otherwise). It's their card that they are worried about you reading, and not the rest of the deck, so I'm sure you can routine a good way to get a peek at the next card in the sequence somehow without ever being able to see either the front or the back of their card.

Bill
todsky
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Thanks for the reassurances, guys. I guess there are enough effects that can be done where I don't need to see the back of the chosen card, then.
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Larry Davidson
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Those who are unfamiliar with the Gene Anderson effect that Dennis Loomis mentions above are missing out on a very strong, real-world effect.

Larry

P.S. - The MD I use is also marked and I'd never leave home without it.
Axelchen
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What about explaining the riffle check for detecting a marked-deck to the spectator when you are accused to use marked cards?
at least for friends and well known people I do this. do you see any problems to do it everytime and for every audience when accused?
kosmoshiva
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Use casino 'cut' cards ... or ...
Look them in the eye when their card is chosen ... or ...
Tell them you do indeed use marked cards and that you can read using your fingertips ...
Personally, I'm delighted if someone posits a wrong solution. Smile
Don't forget to breathe.
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2008-02-02 22:04, Billgussen wrote:
. . . you can go a long way to dispelling the marked deck idea by . . . wearing a blindfold (gimmicked . . .).

I believe you've hit on the precise reason that wearing a blindfold won't dispel the marked-deck idea.


Quote:
On 2008-02-04 10:14, kosmoshiva wrote:
Personally, I'm delighted if someone posits a wrong solution. Smile

I thought that the idea was that they shouldn't be able to posit any (natural) solution.
edh
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I believe Axelchen hit the nail on the head. If specs believe that there is a marked deck then prove them that there isn't.
Magic is a vanishing art.
Bill Lhotta
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I have to agree. If the spectator thinks they know the solution (even if they are wrong) it is as good (to them) as if they really knew the actual solution. The Magi is the only one who is comforted by knowing they do not know the actual secret, but what does this gain?

** Bill **

Quote:
On 2008-02-04 12:30, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-02-04 10:14, kosmoshiva wrote:
Personally, I'm delighted if someone posits a wrong solution. Smile

I thought that the idea was that they shouldn't be able to posit any (natural) solution.
Acecardician
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After they pick a card, I glance the mark, but I look through the deck and say I can tell them which one is missing, and they believe me.

ACE
Acecardician
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And...I found it is good when I work professionally to use a marked deck. I just do regular card effects, but I will always know what their card is, if I need an 'out'. Or get challenged. Once I guy said, let me shuffle. I already knew the card, I gave him the deck. I ended the trick by looking throught the deck to make sure "he did not slip it out" and finished my effect.

ACE
Axelchen
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That's the problem I saw with explaining the riffle check I mentioned in my posting above: if you do use a marked deck sometimes you give them the knowledge to nail you...i don´t really like that.

on the other hand, I think there are some advantages in explaining the riffle check:
1) you prove that you don´t use a marked deck, so you cross out one possible solution a spectator can think of. I personally use marked decks very seldom so to me it´s not really a great problem explaining it. what I like to do sometimes is after the third or fourth performance to the same audience that know me already and that I have convinced in the previous performances that I don´t use special decks, then to ring in such a nice deck. at that state they believe me not to use a marked deck and I do things that I only can do (that clean handling)with a marked deck.

2)this to me is more important: you come around as a nice and honest persona (i am, so I don´t have to fake it Smile ...but not all know that). because first, you say to them that you don´t cheat them so cheap in not using a marked deck ("ooh, it´s not done by such a simple method as I thought. so he is really clever and so honest to me. a real artist" (hehe, i´m not but...)). second, I give them a method to protect themselves in a card game (pokern is very popular in germany nowadays) (i hope they are thinking:"how nice. he introduce us to the real secrets of card cheating. how generous." etc). and the third point to me is, that you are perceived knowledgeable, a real expert in what you do (i know, my magic speaks for itself and I hope that perception is gained by doing magic in the first place, but it´s a kind of extra-convincer. something that connects you further with your audience. it creates an atmosphere of trust, at least I do perceive it that way. and... the more they trust you (has something to do with respect and authority too), the less you have problems with hecklers and the more you can hit them more harder, I believe.

so, again, do you see a problem in explaining this feat (riffle-check)? do you see that as a kind of exposure? me, i´m not really sure and would like to read and listen to your thoughts!

have a nice day!
Axel
Acecardician
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Is it the same as saying I can tell the only one missing? Like exposing that it is possible?
Then they think I have great memory skills.
Not really a magic trick, but again a logical explanation.
And looking at me, they think, oh he can count cards, and tell which is missing.
Another paradox. Danged if you do danged if you don't.

ACE
Axelchen
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The riffle check for marked cards? if you look at the backs and riffle with your thumb like a ... don´t know the right word "thumbcinema" would be the wordly translation from german...like "cardtoon"... you see the marks jump. you can use this to identify marked cards. and that procedure I would explain to the spectator. don´t know if riffle-check is the right term but I would call it that way.

Axel
Scott Cram
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One of the best ways to dispel suspicion about marked cards is to use the key card principle in conjunction with them. That way, you're never looking at their card directly, only the card(s) next to it!
todsky
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Quote:
On 2008-02-11 13:28, Scott Cram wrote:
One of the best ways to dispel suspicion about marked cards is to use the key card principle in conjunction with them. That way, you're never looking at their card directly, only the card(s) next to it!


So true, so simple, so effective.
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Andy Moss
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I guess associated with Scott's observation is the fact that if you first have the deck in a 'memory stack' and false shuffle it in an convincing manner then in most cases one does not require marked cards at all.You can also use a stack for the purpose of avoiding the need to force cards onto the spectator.Only if I feel that the advantages with respect to the streamlining of the effect or in strengthening the impact directly benefit the SPECTATOR do I use a marked deck.

For example at the moment I am practicing a John Mendoza card effect called 'Whispers'. This is a free download provided on Magic Café by Hocus Pocus sited on the 'Workers forum'I think.I am hoping that many of you reading this post will be familiar with it.If not do take the time to download it as it is a solid effect.In the effect I need to know the identities of three cards. The effect therefore involves a force. Now I could use any force.Some more able magicians might even use a sleight of hand to produce the required selections.I could also use a MARKED deck and simply fan the cards out for the spectator to take the selections.But why?

The method I am choosing for 'Whispers'is to simply have the deck in a memory stack.After a thorough looking series of false shuffles I then ask the spectator to call out three numbers between one and fifty two and I simply (and cleanly) take out the selections out at the said positions by dealing cards face down onto table.This leaves me immune to any suspicion in the spectator's mind that a marked deck MUST have been in play.I am also now in a position where I am not under any pressure to see any markings from 3 or 4 feet away. I can bring as much or as little attention to the three selections (and the deck) as I choose to do so having nothing to hide.

With best wishes Andy.
todsky
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Quote:
On 2008-02-18 07:33, Andy Moss wrote:

I need to know the identities of three cards. The effect therefore involves a force.

Not if you use a mem deck or card control.

Quote:
The method I am choosing for 'Whispers' is to simply have the deck in a memory stack. After a thorough looking series of false shuffles I then ask the spectator to call out three numbers between one and fifty two and I simply (and cleanly) take out the selections out at the said positions by dealing cards face down onto table. This leaves me immune to any suspicion in the spectator's mind that a marked deck must have been in play. I am also now in a position where I am not under any pressure to see any markings from 3 or 4 feet away. I can bring as much or as little attention to the three selections (and the deck) as I choose to do so having nothing to hide.

But if you deal the cards, you're not 3 or 4 feet away, so you might be suspected of seeing marks on the cards.
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