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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » Greeks, Seconds, Bottoms, Faros and False Shuffles (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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MagicKim
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Hello ghostpianist,

no I have not. Only thing I have ever tried is some stacking and one hop. (hop against one veru drunk player). I feel I am not good enough yet, one the sense that I can still screw up every now and then and that is not acceptable.

Kim
Unknown419
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Kim screwing up is a part of gambling, like it or not. You should have seen me trying to deal the punch last night...boy oh boy was I horrible snatching air, thumb looking just like a windshield wiper which it shouldn't etc. I'm telling you all this to let you know that I was not proud of this and the only reason I wasn't caught is because the people didn't know what to look for.

Bottom Line: I have to get used to playing with them plastic cards again; Gemaco I believe they call them.


Take Care,

Doc
MagicKim
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I guess I should start practising with plastic cards then? What brand would you recommend?

thanks for telling me this doc, I sometimes feel it is impossible never to screw up but "the professionals never screw up" so I shouldn't either.

take care

Kim
Unknown419
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Quote:
On 2008-02-10 14:29, MagicKim wrote:
I guess I should start practising with plastic cards then? What brand would you recommend?

thanks for telling me this doc, I sometimes feel it is impossible never to screw up but "the professionals never screw up" so I shouldn't either.

take care

Kim


Always practice with ANY DECK you can get your hands on; new, medium and old. Why? Each deck have it's own different feel, texture, coating, size etc. which will determine how your deal will look and sound.

Regarding the professionals not making a mistake is absolutely wrong. I had this delusion as well as a magician coming into the gambling world, that's how I became so good as you are doing now because we thought alike. We make mistakes all the time and in all kinds of ways. Sometimes we come home especially after losing our money scratching our head thinking of how stupid we were. This is the time when we re-think and correct our mistakes of something we said or did wrong that day/night. Becoming a professional doesn't come over night and if you think all you need is skill, you are in for a rude awakening.

StoryTime:

Last night while playing cards this guy who I just recently met said that I indirectly called him a cheater and it's true if I were looking at it from his perspective because a card passed me by (with my memory technique I doubt it but I could be wrong). Later on while playing after the hand was drawn (we were playing Coon-Can), he takes his left over cards and hurry up and picks up the deck because he was probably playing heavy; maybe not but it was better for me to be safe than sorry.

I questioned the action by telling him to stop doing that and he went into an uproar. I tried to explain myself but he didn't want to hear it so I shut up and let him be the star of the show. A hustler friend of mine cooled him down a bit then I explained each situation showing logic to what we both said and that we both wasn't wrong. He was still a little ****ed at me so after making a little joke, I got up and went over to him and got on my knees with my hands folded and said "sorry will you please forgive me" jokingly as he started smiling. I then played off of that and got up and hugged him and said that's all you wanted was a hug while everybody started laughing at what was happening.

All the card skills in the world couldn't get me out of that life threatening situation; a calm head, a friend and wisdom were my only tools and I used them well. We played some more and he beat me because he ripped up the cards that were doctored in his rage but I'll get my money back another time because he definitely think that I'm a sucker.

Luck and me re-learning the touch and feel of plastic cards got me beat last night. I'm home now re-evaluating the situation, and the mistakes of last night will not be there the next time as I refine my technique. In other words, I'll be back for mine (money) because Doc don't leave his money in the streets.

Bottom Line: Professionals lose all the time for a number of reasons but by us losing we learn and gain knowledge each and everyday and this is what we call experience.


Take Care,

Doc

P.S. Note: The professional is explained in Steve Forte's Poker Protection book "The Cheater's World" if you want to further your knowledge in this area.
MagicKim
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Thanks a lot for your advice doc. It is as always greatly appreciated. I guess I have to try and fail to learn in the long run. But what if you would get a hanger when dealing bottoms? Then you are really ****ed? Smile

Thanks for the story, always enjoy reading about your experiences.

Sincerely,

Kim
Ron Conley
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Quote:
On 2008-02-10 16:36, MagicKim wrote:

But what if you would get a hanger when dealing bottoms? Then you are really ****ed? Smile

Kim


You would be amazed at the mistakes that have gone by without notice. I have a tape of a bottom dealer in a five card draw game accidentally dealing himself three cards on the third round. completing his hand with two yet to come. He never changed tempo and just missed himself on the last two rounds, just like it was legal. No one in the game took notice.

If your dealing bottoms and you grab air or hang one, just re-grip and take the top.
Don't give it a thought, just do it like it was legal. You don't want to deal a bottom from here as you have done something that may cause people to look at you.

Lots of people think cheating is magic, that they would not to be able to see it, so they don't bother to look. The truly wise guys know your a bottom dealer before you ever deal one, They see you go to the bottom with the hand, peek or get past the cut. The really good bottom dealers rarely make that kind of mistake, yet they sometimes get caught anyway.

Bottoms have always been a ruff hustle, it's not a move that's going to last over time very often. Moves like Greek bottoms and centers are for magic in my opinion, that's the only people I see doing them. Yes there have been some rare exceptions but those people really belong in magic.

The moves that have a chance to hold up over time are collusion, paper and slug scams, done by teams of players that could probably beat the game on the square. The light has a chance to last as do things like peeks from the sky for games like gin, lastly technology scams the most dangerous of all.

Anyone looking for a living out of card games would be wise to learn how to play at a better than average level first. This will make everything you do much easier, you may even find it preferable to cheating.

Ron
MagicKim
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Hey Ron,

thanks for replying. I will try to take your wisdom to heart.

You don't have any advice for me regarding my techniques?

Kim

ps. The bottom dealer you mentioned, that sounds really odd. Must have been a really soft game?
h2o
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Quote:
I have a tape of a bottom dealer in a five card draw game accidentally dealing himself three cards on the third round

I think I had once an occasion to watch this video. It's dated from the Gardena. It was indeed really laughable.
I would say that it's sometimes more a question of balls than being a top notch mechanic when it comes to cheating in a game.
Andrei
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Doc - great story and info.

Andrei
Unknown419
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Quote:
On 2008-02-10 16:24, Unknown419 wrote:
…the mistakes of last night will not be there the next time as I refine my technique. In other words, I'll be back for mine (money) because Doc don't leave his money in the streets.


I got my money back out of the streets tonight like I said and now that sucker owes me.

For the record Mr. Conley got that sucker broke. How? By talking about Greek and Center dealing are for magic. He made me practice harder to demonstrate that it can be done and I went overboard like I used to (like MagicKim is doing now) and tore a hole in that guys butt.

Quote:
On 2008-02-10 19:11, Ron Conley wrote:
Moves like Greek bottoms and centers are for magic in my opinion, that's the only people I see doing them. Yes there have been some rare exceptions but those people really belong in magic.

Ron


In my opinion Greek and Center dealing was never meant for magicians in the first place; they are gambling moves specifically for the card table. The only way the magicians found out about it was because Dai Vernon ventured into our world and learned about it and told the magicians; this is probably why Mr. Conley said what he said but I don’t agree with it.

Because the magicians until didn’t know cold deck moves doesn’t mean that suckers were never cheated by it. The Center and Greek deal were obviously a counter to suckers who were trying to protect themselves from being cheated a particular way and like all the other efforts, they failed. A cheat must adapt to every situation or he might as well quit hustling and get a job.

If my memory serves me correctly did I not invent an Infinity Greek deal hop specifically to help those hustlers who learned my Infinity Pass to help them along just incase someone throws a cut card in their mist? Is that not adaptation.

Doc why are you pushing this issue? I’m an inventor of gambling moves like many of you out there are and I will not be brainwashed into thinking one thing especially when a real hustler by the name of Alan Halcon came to my house and taught it to me. In other words, this hustler mainly plays Texas Hold’em and he has adapted to his environment with the cut card and has overcome this obstacle.

Mr. Conley did say that there were exceptions and Alan and I are and yes we both do have a magic background so don’t think that his statement is totally wrong because I wrote this because no one person sees everything pertaining to gambling especially me and he can only testify to what he has seen throughout his years. Note: Because two men speak from different perspectives doesn’t mean that one is right and the other is wrong, he just hasn’t seen it as of yet and if he sees Alan doing it in a game, I'm sorry to say that he still won't be seeing it.


Take care,

Doc
ghostpianist
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Walter Irvin Scott said that card cheat is 10% manipulation and 90% con. Any opinions on this?
tommy
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In the world of the blind the one eyed man is king.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Vandy Grift
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Quote:
On 2008-02-12 10:59, ghostpianist wrote:
Walter Irvin Scott said that card cheat is 10% manipulation and 90% con. Any opinions on this?


I thought it was 90% percent manipulation and the other half was mental.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
RouJ
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Nice new mat Kim.

Sorry but I couldn't resist ;D
Marcomagia
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Everything is looking very good. Continue in same way.
tommy
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System going well. Send more money!
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
adamc
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Great table faro, Kim. How long has it taken you to get to this perfected? I'm not yet at the point where I can separate the packets without squaring them against each other first, which of course doesn't look natural. Gotta keep practicing..

Adam
MagicKim
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I am not really sure. I have practised it about a year I think alltogether, sometimes a few hours a day, sometimes, not for weeks. When I practise, I don't just sit there doing it, but I am thinking about how I can make it better, how I can get rid of the flaws it has.

I am now practising, what I believe, is the last method I will practise, at least for a long time. Biggest problems I am still facing are... deck condition and losing the feel for it when not practising for a while. What I mean by that is, I have to get a lot better so that I don't lose that much feel.

Kim
adamc
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Quote:
On 2008-04-09 21:11, MagicKim wrote:
I am not really sure. I have practised it about a year I think alltogether, sometimes a few hours a day, sometimes, not for weeks. When I practise, I don't just sit there doing it, but I am thinking about how I can make it better, how I can get rid of the flaws it has.

I am now practising, what I believe, is the last method I will practise, at least for a long time. Biggest problems I am still facing are... deck condition and losing the feel for it when not practising for a while. What I mean by that is, I have to get a lot better so that I don't lose that much feel.

Kim


Alright good, in your initial post you mentioned "I have been playing around with it for a few days here and there to get it as smooth as possible and this is where I am now." so I was wondering if you meant that you had learned the table faro in a few days!! In which case I would've felt extremely inadequate considering I've been working on it for over a year myself!

I'm about the same though, a year and a bit practicing on and off, sometimes every day, sometimes not for a few weeks or months. Deck condition makes a huge difference - I was just practicing it today with a newish deck and I can do a perfect faro nearly every time. On an older deck, it's much less consistent. I learned my technique from the Martin Nash video tape Infinity & Beyond - so much for learning it in half an hour! I'm really curious if it is actually possible to learn this personally from him in a short amount of time like he states in the video tape.

Anyway, good luck practicing and keep the videos coming, it's refreshing to see some card videos on youtube that are worth watching! Plus, it's always great to see another persons technique for the table faro, since I find hand position can make a big difference, and it gives me motivation to keep practicing.

Adam
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