The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Alternate Alien theories.... Not from space? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4 [Next]
Jerrine
View Profile
Special user
Busking is work.
629 Posts

Profile of Jerrine
Impossible is so out of date.
Stevethomas
View Profile
Inner circle
Southern U.S.A.
3725 Posts

Profile of Stevethomas
What I find to be funniest is that whenever a craft or UFO is described, it has lights. If any OTHER society were advanced enough to time or serious space travel and wanted to stay secret...why in the world would they NEED or have lights on their craft?

Steve
irossall
View Profile
Special user
Snohomish, Washington
529 Posts

Profile of irossall
Quote:
On 2008-02-10 19:18, Orville_Smith wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-02-09 14:34, Pakar Ilusi wrote:


Aliens are really just us from the distant future?




NO, theoretically, Time-Travel is not plausible at all. Because,hypothetically, if you travelled Back through time and somehow prevented your parents from ever meeting in the first place, then you would Never have been born in the first place. And if you were never born, then you could Not have travelled in the first place. This basic principle applies to time travel as a whole, a contradiction that makes time travel totally impossible. So, in comparison, the conclusion of having aliens from outer space is the only believable one.


Parallel Universes takes care of this paradox nicely.
Iven Smile
Give the gift of Life, Be an Organ Donor.
Jonathan Townsend
View Profile
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
27123 Posts

Profile of Jonathan Townsend
Quote:
On 2008-02-10 19:18, Orville_Smith wrote:...Because,hypothetically, if you travelled Back through time and somehow prevented your parents from ever meeting in the first place, then you would Never have been born in the first place. ...


That line of thinking was just a way to permit storytellers to stay clear of confusing their audiences. The more clever storytellers, like Heinlein avoided all that and wrote stories like "All You Zombies" which not only have time travel but characters interacting with instances of themselves. Smile

The rational line of reasoning goes something like this: "how specifically could you tell if you did travel back in time?" and from that "how specifically could you tell if you returned to your own time?"

And when you find that there are no answers to either of those questions, much less the ones which follow plainly from them... the best option so far seems to be the parallel universes notion - which has been sitting comfortably in physics for quite some time as the "many worlds" interpretation of classical quantum mechanics.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
ed rhodes
View Profile
Inner circle
Rhode Island
2750 Posts

Profile of ed rhodes
Quote:
On 2008-02-10 19:18, Orville_Smith wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-02-09 14:34, Pakar Ilusi wrote:


Aliens are really just us from the distant future?




NO, theoretically, Time-Travel is not plausible at all. Because,hypothetically, if you travelled Back through time and somehow prevented your parents from ever meeting in the first place, then you would Never have been born in the first place. And if you were never born, then you could Not have travelled in the first place. This basic principle applies to time travel as a whole, a contradiction that makes time travel totally impossible. So, in comparison, the conclusion of having aliens from outer space is the only believable one.


See if you can find "The Men Who Killed Mohammed" - blast, I've gone blank on the writer.

That's the only one I can remember the title of. There was another in which a probe sent back in time crushes an insect. When it comes back, we're all lizards, but we're not aware that anything has changed.

Isaac Asimov wrote one in which someone sent a modern day chemistry text back to ancient Greece. Turns out the person who translated the text into ancient Greek knew full well the ramifications of sending knowledge back through time and made certain only information that WOULDN'T change the time stream went back.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
gaddy
View Profile
Inner circle
Agent of Chaos
3207 Posts

Profile of gaddy
Aliens could be a hidden aspect of the human psyche that manifests itself in different ways to according to the different cultures we live in. fairies, angels, UFOs, Yetis, ETC...

I first heard of this idea from the writings of Robert Anton Wilson and Terence McKenna.
*due to The Magic Cafe's editorial policies, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
gaddy
View Profile
Inner circle
Agent of Chaos
3207 Posts

Profile of gaddy
Quote:
On 2008-02-10 20:15, Jerrine wrote:
Impossible is so out of date.


Also, according to current thinking in physics, the impossible seems to be very improbable...
*due to The Magic Cafe's editorial policies, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
gaddy
View Profile
Inner circle
Agent of Chaos
3207 Posts

Profile of gaddy
Quote:
On 2008-02-10 19:18, Orville_Smith wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-02-09 14:34, Pakar Ilusi wrote:


Aliens are really just us from the distant future?




NO, theoretically, Time-Travel is not plausible at all. Because,hypothetically, if you travelled Back through time and somehow prevented your parents from ever meeting in the first place, then you would Never have been born in the first place. And if you were never born, then you could Not have travelled in the first place. This basic principle applies to time travel as a whole, a contradiction that makes time travel totally impossible. So, in comparison, the conclusion of having aliens from outer space is the only believable one.


This presumption assumes (amongst other things...) that the subjective human experience of time has some deep relationship to the real physical nature of time- which has not been a given in physics since the early days of relativistic physics...
*due to The Magic Cafe's editorial policies, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20525 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Why since major media, have aliens seemed to take on the same shape?

By the way, in the physical universe we live in, travel past the speed of light is not possible. I do not mean highly improbable, not possible. The size of engine needed to approach the speed, increases as you get closer to that speed, and the amount of fuel needed to put a ship that was only the size of an atom, becomes unfathomable.

Physics of our universe, can not be changed. Aliens occupy the same universe we do.

As for parallel universe, why do you think they call it UNIverse? LOL.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
enginemagic
View Profile
Special user
Bluffton Indiana
603 Posts

Profile of enginemagic
Many of us see in reality we or they cant live along enough ,and have a long lasting power source to travel that far to get together. There are others out there in other galixys?????
To put this into a realistic scale it would be like a small sidewalk ant with their own skills ,and means trying to travel from washington DC USA. to Sidny Australia.
theres a lot to learn out there,many interesting subjects,and hobbies to enjoy
Doug Higley
View Profile
V.I.P.
Here and There
7173 Posts

Profile of Doug Higley
Easy stuff enginemagic...Hitch.

Got your Towel?
Higley's Giant Flea Pocket Zibit
Jonathan Townsend
View Profile
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
27123 Posts

Profile of Jonathan Townsend
And so Abbot's circle says the sphere was a bad dream.
And Heinlein's story about a crooked house is what?
That kind of in-box thinking went out among the smart-set around 1930 - the currently fashionable language for the multiple universe model involves "branes" as in membranes stacked to make higher dimensional solids.
Even comic books have gotten over that 3+1 is all we go stuff. Check out "Planetary" or "The Authority" for some with multiple universes in comic book stories.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20525 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Stan Lee had a great alternate universe theory with the "Watcher". LOL
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Doug Higley
View Profile
V.I.P.
Here and There
7173 Posts

Profile of Doug Higley
I thought he had one with that awful reality wannabe Super Hero TV show in thinking it was 'Watchable'.

:)
Higley's Giant Flea Pocket Zibit
Andy Moss
View Profile
Special user
710 Posts

Profile of Andy Moss
O.K here goes. A bit of intellectual excercise. A Buddhist perspective on the serious and grave matter of aliens.(!) Remember Buddhists were the first scientists operating at roughly the time of the ancient Greeks.

Space is vaster than the intellect can possibly conceive (to quote the famous cosmologist Arthur Dent).Space can indeed contain any form imaginable however large or small. In a way space DOES already contain any event.Events are aspects or points of reference in the primal/timeless void so that the universe can become/understand itself.

'The laws of Physics', 'One mind', 'Cosmic consciousness' 'Eric Clapton' 'I'm a little teapot' (or whatever your perception is of 'God') transcend space/time. In other words our true nature pervades all of space/time. There is a Buddhist vajrayana practice called 'the six element practice' where you can actually experience this as a reality within you (but that is another story).

'What is' is the only way that things can possibly work. It is ordered chaos. At a certain level of scale/time all chaos becomes order. Scientific experiments observed with particle collisions have shown this to be true. Buddhists say that 'every snowflake falls where it needs to be'. Therefore 'chaos' and 'order' are just concepts and not an absolute truth. This way of being lies beyond choice or our perception of what 'freewill' is. It is whether we like it or not.It is the Dharma/laws of physics and we are that. It is not true to sy that we do not do not have free will. Determinism is only a crude and lower understanding.

Events can be considered therefore as being just manifestations of a probability graspable by the intellect. This is what quantum physics teaches us. Subatomic particles are just probabilities of the uniform (undifferentiated) field of energy only manifesting as a wave/particle event when observed by the universe through us! The whole (Holy) can only be expeerienced/observed through the aspect. That is why we will never 'die' We will always be a self aware aspect. It is impossible not to be! There are three constants in the universe. Symmetry, momentum and energy. Like taking a camera shot of a moving ocean wave and freezing the timeless moment (the event/probability) within space/time. A relative perception.

Any 'aliens'would have to be able to understand the relativity of space/time at the quantum level where macro laws become become infinitely flexible.'The speed of light' is not a solid reality and can indeed be transcended as can indeed any boundary. Scientists are still not aware of the extent 'violent cosmic events' such as super black holes (perhaps located in the centre of galaxies) and quasars (that give off in a split second as much energy as a whole galaxy) can alter the light in space/time. Rules relating to the laws of relativity do seem to break down at the quantum level.

Buddhist also believe that one can go 'back in time' but not in the sense that one goes back physically in chronological time. After all 'one can never step into the same river twice'. In deep meditation we can experience the past but only in the NOW, in the timeless moment.

Spirit commands energy energy commands body (matter).Therefore any alien race able to reach us would have to be very technically and also importantly fairly spiritually advanced. They would be no such thing as a very 'evil' advanced alien race (whatever you may well have seen on Stargate!).One is evil due to the fact one is suffering. Therefore one should be compassionate (but firm) with evil people. This is why capital punishment is foolish and why greater resources need to go into the forceful challenging of the way of thinking and the assumptions of the criminal.Buddhists believe that if you commit suicide you only are reformed so to speak with the very same habitual dispositions. The same would be the case with murderers!

Animals cannot be evil as they do not have the ability to self observe or to respond to any significant degree (although having said that a female friend of mine does appear to have a very evil male burmese cat so perhaps I could be wrong here folks).Evil is a technique that the ego uses for distracting the mind from experiencing higher frequencies of being. So we could say that ultimately evil=ignorance. Ignorance =Igore-ance.The laws of Physics do not persecute us in a 'personal' way so don't take offence next time a tree falls on your car or a rabid cougar gauges your eyes out.

Quite why aliens would want to communicate with us is not at all clear to me. After all we have nothing to trade with them in a material sense. We are also not (yet) spiritually very advanced. That is to say we are not very able to steer our own minds or to put it another way to respond to the experience of energy within us. Really we are only just recently evolved from the animal kingdom. We would appear to the aliens to be reactive and unpredicable. If U.F.O space ships are sreally seen then it is because they want to test our responses to their presense. They could easily evade our radars I would think.Most (if not all) U.F.O's are of course the result of wishful thinking and mistaken identification.

The bad news is that it may well be the case that aliens may well not be showing themselves to humankind in any meaningful way for quite a few years yet (perhaps a few decades at least).Firstly the planet needs a centralised government and language. The aliens would require that if a communication was to be fruitful for them. Ideally humankind also needs to be reaching out physically into the local parts of the milky way (ie our own galaxy)so that it can be observed.The future world government will be an international body dominated by a particular culture (likely to be 'English speaking' 'scientific capitalistism'.The Chinese and the Americans will naturally dominate on this body until cultural differences inevitably fade over many centuries.Then there will be no such dominence of any particular nation state.

The good news however (speaking as an englishman who still grieves the passing of the British Empire) is that the probability is extremely high that aliens do indeed exist.It is interesting that for over athousand years Buddhists have believed in ten demensions of space/time and much more recently quantum 'String theory' is pointing in that same direction as well. Anyway I will leave 'worm holes' and blackhole gateways' for another day (or life!).

O.K so now you know all you need to know about aliens and why we should love and nurture them. With best wishes to you all. Tongue firmly in cheek. Andy.
Doug Higley
View Profile
V.I.P.
Here and There
7173 Posts

Profile of Doug Higley
I actually read all that. Andy actually wrote all that.

but...
I think I'm my own worst Alien. I
I'd be better at it if I spoke Spanish
Higley's Giant Flea Pocket Zibit
Andy Moss
View Profile
Special user
710 Posts

Profile of Andy Moss
Doug, if it wasn't for the breakthrough work of your grandfather Albert Einstein I would not be able to pontificate at all.

Andy.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20525 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
I notice you mention the word "pontificate" and not prove LOL.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Josh Riel
View Profile
Inner circle
of hell
1999 Posts

Profile of Josh Riel
It's funny the lengths you will all go to to pretend like your even real, not less trying to discuss aliens.

The truth is I am a single entity of some kind who is dreaming, or what I call dreaming. You are all make believe.

As I can only verify that I myself am real, I must assume that since I do not really care about others in any real sense, they do not exist. You are "They", although your not reading this.

This is a really screwed up dream!
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
Doug Higley
View Profile
V.I.P.
Here and There
7173 Posts

Profile of Doug Higley
And it really doesn't matter...at all...
Higley's Giant Flea Pocket Zibit
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Alternate Alien theories.... Not from space? (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.2 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL