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AntonDreaming
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So why do people feel these are so bad. I worked one long in the past and am working another one in the next 20 days. The one I worked a while back seemed fine. Just like any other kids show. What seems to be the major complaint.

Anton
magic4u02
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No complaint here if you 1) know how to market to them 2) know what goes on at the banquets and 3) provide a quality show that solves the needs of the pack. I have done a lot of them over the years and market to them every year. In fact this year alone my wife and I are already into our B and G tour with doing around 9 of them in the course of February and early March.

Blue and Gold banquets around my area usually happen in February and March of every year. It is also a great opportunity for the family entertainer to land a few shows, make some money and have a great time in the processes. I wanted to share with you some general tips I have used over the years that have really helped. I hope they may help you as well.

To start, there are a few ways to market to Blue and Gold banquets that have worked for me.

1) go to the actual scouting councils in your area and ask them about their newsletters (placing an ad in one) or even asking them if they would be able to help you get the word out about your shows. Most of them are very helpful and do not mind helping and assisting you in any
way they can.

2) doing some internet research through search engines like Google and then "qualifying" the list and doing a mailing out to them. I use both and have worked very well for my wife and I. It is amazing the information you can obtain through simply asking for it.

In regards to fees or what to charge, I have found that at least in my own area, you can probably get a standard birthday party fee and perhaps a little bit higher but your birthday fee is probably about the norm or a good place to start. They do have budgets but not always a large one. As an example, if your birthday fee is about $200, then I would start your B and G fee range at around $175-$225 and go from there. A few contacts will determine for you what the range is in your
own area. In a lot of cases you can often get a lot more then this. But you have to test the waters first in your own area and determine what the range is. If the pack is fairly large and a part of a good council, the money and budgets will be much higher.

If you find that you are facing the problem of too many packs not having he funds for your show, a great idea is to suggest to them to combine with another pack and do a larger banquet together. This way they can pull resources, help each other out and have a bigger budget for things.

In regards to buying magic specific to blue and gold banquets, I do understand that paying a large fee for a trick you may only do once, is not to your advantage. However, if you are booking on average of 3 or more blue and gold banquets a year, then adding a blue and gold themed
effect works well and you pay it off in one show easily. It then adds value to your show from that point on. If you do many blue and gold banquets then this becomes a nice investment.

A few things you will want to keep in mind when working a Blue and Gold:

- try and keep your show to either 30 minutes or 45 minutes. In fact, be able to do either. Ask them in advance what works best for them. Now my fee does not change regardless of how long I do. The reason to have your time length set like this is because most Blue and Gold Banquets
have a lot of stuff going on that day. You are up against award ceremonies which take time to do. Asking them what works best for them is a value add and they will appreciate you asking them in advance.

- keep in mind that because they usually want to do awards and a ceremony at the banquet, that you will want to try and go on first if you can help it. Once again, simply asking them usually works great here. If you do not ask, then be prepared to wait and go on later then your scheduled start time.

- get the cub master involved in the show. The scouts absolutely love it if you get the scout master involved in the show in some way. Use your imagination on what will work best for you. This can be anything from an Instant Magician routine to having the scout master help you with a "Do as I Do" style effect.

- yes your goal is to entertain the scouts. However, keep in mind that this is a family event and if you can gear your show towards having entertainment for all ages in attendance, you will do much better.

- get used to asking what is on their schedule for that evening. Most follow a very similar plan but some like to mix it up and have the awards at a different meeting. I usually ask upfront so that I can determine when the dinner will be and the proper order of things. This allows me to better tell them where my show will fit best.

- remember that this is a golden opportunity to market yourself before and while you are at the event. Blue and Gold banquets usually always have a program that someone does. I always ask if I might be able to be listed in it and I then give them my information to be included in the program. This is free advertising for you so feel free to ask them about it. I have never had any problem with it and they are more then happy to assist you. While at the event, having some sort of marketing material the kids will like to keep is a great way to give something out that they will hold on to. Also have your business cards with you cause you will be asked by folks after the show if you present a good performance.

My 2 cents worth.

Kyle
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Payne
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I do a few of these every year as well and generally the only problem I run into is that every so often the scoutmaster comes out before your performance and reads the riot act to the scouts telling them that they are all to be respectful and quiet during your show. This of course means you are performing your act before a mute and unresponsive audience as they won't say a word in fear of their scoutmasters retribution.
Usually takes a bit of time to get this kind of crowd warmed up and into the show.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Al Angello
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Anton
Cub scouts are 8 to 12 year old boys and they all want to be the center of attention. They are sure that they know how you did every trick, and can do those tricks better than you. You need a microphone, and an agreement with the scout master to give you some cover if things get out of hand. They are not really that tough but they do require some extra precautions.
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Scott O.
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I do about 4 of these a year. I've never marketed to the scouts as a group. I've attempted to compile a list of scout leaders via the internet, but they are hard to track down and the leadership changes every couple of years.

In my area, I get families at these events, Dad, Mom, and all the kids. So, it is definitely a family show. It's a good idea to have some effects that pertain directly to the scouts. This helps personalize the show for that group. If done well, they appreciate this.

The only problems I've had with this group depends upon the leadership. If all the kids run up front and sit down and then the adults wander off to the back and talk, there's going to be some control issues. The age group can vary from 5 year olds to 12 or even 13 year olds then. Couple that with a late night show -- good luck.

That's why I send a confirmation letter to the scout leader and give them some tips to have the best results for the show. Among those--have the kids sit WITH their parents during the show. This isn't always heeded, but it does send the message that the show is for everyone.

Kyle is right-on with his suggestions as well. Re-read his post for some great ideas regarding shows for cub scouts.

Scott Smile.
Do not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time you will reap a harvest, if you do not give up. Galatians 6:9
AntonDreaming
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Soounds good. Special thanks to Kyle for all the great info. I don't forse any issues as Im pretty good with controling the crowd.

Anton
wdwfan71
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Quote:
On 2008-02-22 11:41, Scott O. wrote:

In my area, I get families at these events, Dad, Mom, and all the kids. So, it is definitely a family show. It's a good idea to have some effects that pertain directly to the scouts. This helps personalize the show for that group. If done well, they appreciate this.

The only problems I've had with this group depends upon the leadership. If all the kids run up front and sit down and then the adults wander off to the back and talk, there's going to be some control issues. The age group can vary from 5 year olds to 12 or even 13 year olds then. Couple that with a late night show -- good luck.

That's why I send a confirmation letter to the scout leader and give them some tips to have the best results for the show. Among those--have the kids sit WITH their parents during the show. This isn't always heeded, but it does send the message that the show is for everyone.

Kyle is right-on with his suggestions as well. Re-read his post for some great ideas regarding shows for cub scouts.

Scott Smile.



I've done several B&G's and found them to be fun. From my own experience, I will say Scott O's advice and tips are 100% dead on. Take his advice along with Kyle's suggestions and you'll be fine.
magic4u02
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Hi all. Good discussion and interesting ideas expressed here. Thank you Scott for your kind words. Let me try and go over a few things as well from my experience of doing so many of these every year. Hope it may help.

- The scoutmaster (those who know their job well) will often try and come out and talk to the kids prior to my show to do exactly what Payne mentioned. I have had that happen before when I first started doing these types of shows. It is just the part of them being a cub master that they feel they are doing you a favor.

What I do to address this issue is make sure that as soon as I get there and get things loaded in, Kelly and I greet the cub master at the start before anything is taking place. It is essential to get their attention BEFORE the event starts. Once it starts, it is very hard to get ahold of them because they are trying to conduct everything.

When I meet them I am very kind and making sure I am not making demands with them but more making sure I understand the schedule for the event and how I can best meet their needs for that schedule. It is also my chance to confirm my start time. If it has to be adjusted, I can address it at that point.

I also make it a point to tell the pack master that my show is interactive and I encourage the kids to get involved. So if the kids make noise and such, that is all a part of what I want to have happen in the show.

I also tell them that they can help by having at least 2 adults or den leaders towards the front with the kids. They are there that if it gets too noisy, they will see me give the scout sign. The scout sign is almost like a peace symbol with the fingers. The scouts all know what this is and when it is in the air it means everyone needs to be quiet. I use that ALL the time and it works. I just stop talking, show the sign and then the adults are to also hold up the sign when they see me do it. This works wonders in gaining and keeping control.

- Al is also right. Kids at that age do tend to try and want to show off to their friends and peers and they are often very hyper as well. It is the nature of what happens when you get kids that age together in the same room. It will happen but it can be controlled and used to your advantage.

Some of this also happens because the kids see you as just another adult and nothing more. I try and change their perception of me when I get there and get them seeing me as a person who shows them respect and is a cool guy. I get their acceptance early on by asking the help of the webelos (olders kids) to help me bring stuff in from my truck. Getting them involved early on is a wonderful way to get them active and helping you. It also helps give their energy something constructive to do. By doing this, I also get to know who they are, their names, likes etc. It really works quite well. If you can get the older kids to change their perception of you, it usually trickles down through the pack.

- Another thing I do is that the kids are excited and hyper that evening and they just will be that way. It is a part of scouting and being a kid. I accept that. I also know that during dinner the kids are not always going up to the buffet table at the same time. This can cause them to get a bit wild as well. If I am set up (and I usually always am before dinner) I go over to each table (usually set up according to dens) and I perform a simple strolling style magic trick. It keeps them involved, occupied and the perceived value in the eyes of the kids and the adults of me increases.

- There are several ways and techniques in order to market to the scout groups. I have come up with several systems that have really worked great for me. One point I will make is that people forget that each pack must belong to a central scout council for their area. It is easy to find out these councils and get a chance to call them or go there in person. These people are almost always friendly and willing to help you out. All you have to do is simply ask. I have gotten so much great stuff by simply doing this.

- Scott is right. Leadership does change a lot but the councils are always in touch with every pack in their area and so they will know who is in charge and ways to contact them. You can tap into this.

- Scott is also right in that you do not have to change your show around a lot. If you already are doing a family-friendly style show, then that is exactly what you want to do for B and g's. Families are in atendance so I make sure my show is tailored so that enyone in the audience gets to have fun with it.

- Show length will usually be 30 mins to 45 minutes but not much longer then that. They have so much else going on that evening. You will want to ask up front what length show will meet their needs the best. This is important as you do not want to be doing 45 mins or more and have the cub master pacing nervosuly on the side. Find out ahead of time by asking.

- Leadership is also an issue. You can not asusme that every pack is organized and under control. Some are and they run it fantastic and the kids are well behaved. In many cases, the cub master has no idea what he or she is ding. If this is the case, this is YOUR time to shine and be a solutions provider to them. Who knows more about running events and entertainment then you do? If you perform a lot, then there is no reason why you can not step to the front and help them to give advice and suggestions to make their event run smooth. If you speak up, they will listen to you. I often make suggestions of the schedule and they love me for it.

- If you have problems with kids creeping up on you, I place a tape line on the floor. This works great as I tell the leaders to get the kids to sit according to den. The younger kids come up first and then theolder kids in back. This works well.

- Scott hits on a topic that is HUGE in my book. I always tell the packs this. When they are setting up the tables have the parents sit with the scouts in their respective dens. Do NOT have the kids sit by themselves. it does not work and is total chaos. This is important. I mention this to the packs and I suggest that it also brings families together and also builds fun within each den.

Hope this helps. It can be a daunting thing but it does not have to be if you take a few things into consideration.

Kyle
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Bob Sanders
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I think the part some entertainers find threatening with this type audience is that the audience members often know each other very well and the entertainer is the outsider. Think of it as a characteristic rather than a threat. Then use it to amuse the group rather than seeing it as separate individuals. Take advantage of the oneness that unites them and play to it. They have each other for support. They can take "safe" chances with you.

Make it fun.

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magic4u02
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Bob brings up a very good point. Most cub packs are very much like a big extended family fior everyone involved. You showing up to perform is almost like showing up at a large family reunion of sorts. This is not always a bad thing.

As Bob so nicely put it, you are indeed an outsider. But, you do not have to be perceived that way. There usually is a lot of time between the time the event starts, you set up and your show goes on.

From the minute you get there,you can do things to get people to accept you more into the "family". Meet the cub master when you get there and talk with him or her and introduce yourself and be intersted in what they share. Talk and greet the den leaders. Get the kids to help you bring things in from your vehicle. There is so much you can do to break down the invisible wall that exists between you and them.

In many cases, they will offer you dinner as well since they always have way more then they will ever need. If you are set up, accept their hospitality. When in line for the buffet, get to know people, talk to them and get them to see you as part of their family.

Hopefully by doing these very simple things, you are so much more accepted before your show even starts. Great concept and ideas Bob and I am really glad you brought them up. Thank you sir.

Kyle
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jkvand
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Great suggestions, Kyle. I hadn't thought of asking to be listed in the program, that's a great idea for some free advertsing. I'm curious - why do you not charge extra for a longer show? I do, and usually get it. If they don't want to pay the fee for the 45 minute show, they are happy to have the 30 minute show. Just curious what your line of thinking is on this. Thanks, Jeff
magic4u02
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Jeff: Thanks for the nice complements. I do appreciate them and hope some of it may bve of help to yourself and to others. I always ask to be listed in the program and I go as far as sending them information to oput in it. Ideas for wordage, photos, my logo etc. They usually love it because it makes the program look nicer. In fact I just got back from one tonight and I ended up with a full page in the program with bio and web site and the works. It was great free advertising and it cost me nothing.

Good question about the 2 time limits one fee. I should have explained more on my reasoning and thinking on this. The fee they are paying is always my 45 min show fee. If I do 30 minutes they still are paying the 45 min fee. This came about because I usually only offer the 45 min show as that is the cub scout show I designed and has worked over the years. This year I started getting folks asking me at the last minute if I could reduce the show time to 30 minutes for them. They all were more then wiling to still pay me my 45 minute stage show fee because they felt I was still going out of my way to work with them and solve their needs.

Hope this helps.

Kyle
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Signor Blitz
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I don't understand (besides lack of skill/experience) why someone would turn away a B&G. The green all spends the same.
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I just did a Blue/Gold banquet last night and it was a blast with about 250 parents and kids. I charged my full rate and seem to have lots of interest in more shows. I varied the routines considerably from my B-Day show to minimize duplicate routines. The B/G program went for hours and my show was at the end so I was wondered about losing the audience by the end of the day but fortunately was able to revive the room and had a receptive bunch.

Dan.
magic4u02
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Well a lot of folks would turn the gig down mainly because they are not 100% comfortable in doing it. There is a certain comfort level in doing markets you feel you have more control over. There is this feeling that at a Blue and Gold, you lack control because of the amount of kids there and the ages and the fact they are all so hyper. Some folks just do not like to deal with that aspect or are fearful of it.

However, my feeling is that it all can be controlled very well if you learn to know the market you are getting into. There is no reason why the blue and gold can not be as much fun and successful as your birthday parties that you do. You just have to learn more about the blue and golds and what goes on and ways in which you as a professional can keep control in a way that is easy and fun.

Dan: Great stuff my friend. The kids and families really do love it though. I bet you found that the blue and gold crowd is very much like a family show right? Meaning you can tailor a show for a family and you will have a pretty good base for the show that will go over for blue and golds.

As far as waiting is concerned, yes there are often times a lot of waiting at these banquets because there is so much that has to go on that night. However every one of them has a schedule or a schedule that they all seem to follow pretty closely. The schedule usually looks something like this.

- Meet and Greet - this is usually when people start arriving, parents talk to each other, kids are running and talking with each other and such.
- Intro to the event - short verbal intro with the scouts and pledge of allegiance etc.
- Prayer for the dinner
- Dinner - usually buffet style and brought up according to dens. Usually each table represents a den of the cub pack.
- Desert Contest - Usually they will then do a desert contest and will announce the winners at this time and present small awards for them. They may also give out or give away center pieces as well or give out door prices that were donated to the pack.
- Desert
- Friends of scouting presentation - usually every main council will send over a scout person to talk briefly about scouting to raise funds and get the parents knowing about what their money goes to.
- acknolwedgement awards for helpers and den leaders
- awards ceremony
- arrow of light ceremony
- closing

That is pretty much how a lot of the blue and gold banquets run in regards to what has to take place that evening. Now what I do is that I always ask ahead of time what their schedule is and often times I can help them with it because I have done so many of these. I actually simply ask them to go on after desert and before the awards.

By simply asking, you usually will be amazed at what you can get. I often times do not have any problems because I tell them directly why this works out best. There is dead time while people are finishing desert and the kids are always done before the adults are. Then there is clean up which is also dead time. I make that dead time a perfect spot for a show. It allows the kids to calm down a bit more and not running around and after the show, they are ready for awards. It works out nicely and helps me to go on sooner at a more scheduled time that works for both me and the scout pack.

By going on after dinner and before the awards, you also have a more attentive audience of both kids and adults. The kids are not tired and the adults are not pulling their kids to go home because it is so late. If you ask to go on at this time, it usually is not a problem for them to schedule you in there.

Hope this helps.

Kyle
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Al Angello
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Lack of confidense is the only reason why someone would turn down a good paying job. Perhaps if you are just starting it would not be a good place to start. On the other hand if you have your chops it is a rewarding place to work.
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magic4u02
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Al has it exactly right. It is not a market you want to dive into if you have not done a lot of kids and family shows. However, if you have done a lot of kid shows and family style shows, the Blue and Gold market is not bad at all and certainly can be done. Good money and a greta place to market for additional shows. It only requires learning about how Blue and Golds run and preparing yourself accordingly. It really is not that bad and my wife and I enjoy doing a lot of them every year.

We just got done a large one last night and it was really fun. They themed the entire event around magic and around us being there. We were treated like royalty. They had cake contest but each cake had to be magic themed. They had a program and gave us a page in it devoted to us with our information in it. The songs and skits they did were also magic themed. The center pieces were fun top hats and they even created us a nice backdrop for our show.

It was a great evening and we already had interest from people there for our other show offerings.

Kyle
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jkvand
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Kyle,
Thanks for the explanation, that all makes sense. What a great resource this Café is!
Blue and Golds have also been a good place for me for BOR sales. This does require extra time, as I have to stay around until the end of the banquet, but many of the kids (and parents and grandparents!) have been interested in picking up a trick or book on the way out. Don't forget that April is Abracadabra Month for many packs, and it's not too late to approach them about offering something. I marketed for this a few months ago and already have some lined up, but even now I'm still getting some calls about them. A lot of packs plan very well and very far in advance, but A LOT of them also wait until the last minute, and would consider booking now for an April meeting. Best of luck, Jeff
magic4u02
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Jeff: You are most welcome my friend. Glad I could explain it a bit better the second time around. It just works well for me and no one has had any problem paying the fee regardless of the amount of time I am doing (30 or 45 mins).

I am suprised though that you are able to do BOR at these events. Are you making any decent income from them? Are they allowing you to do this with approval ahead of time or do you just set it up and do it? I am just curious is all. If it works for you, that is great.

I have just realized that several things happen at most Blue and Gold banquets. That is that there is a LOT of stuff going on and thwy want to stick to a schedule as much as they can. With this in mind, I would feel that no BOR table could be set up until the very end of the closing ceremonies as people are leaving or cleaning up. Short of that, it would be a distraction to the kids and the flow of the schedule. Also, usually these things run long and after the last bit is over, most parents are just so eager to get the kids and get heading home. I am not sure how much traffic you would get at a BOR table.

I certainly am not saying this can;t be done. I guess you just have to try it, get approval ahead of time and make sure your table and when you ste it up is at an appropriate time.

You are right in that April is Abracadabra Month at the cub pack meetings. You can easily do a small show and workshop experience. It is a way you can actually tie it in to the abracadbra month and also help kids earn their badge as well. I do believe magic is one badge they can earn and this is a great way to tie into that as a value add to them.

I am just curious cause this year was the firts year I had heard of them doing this Abracadabra month. Is this something they usually have every year? I can and may just call my local council and find out. Even if it isn't, you can still package up a great marketing concept by giving the packs an idea to have you come to their meeting, show a few tricks and then teach magic as a workshop. It would probably go over very well.

Kyle
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jkvand
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Regarding BOR, yes, I always ask permission and have it granted before the show. I set up a table in the hallway on the way out. Not right by the exit doors, but close enough that they can all see me as they exit (but not close enough that I'm an inconvenience to them if they simply want to leave). Most of the B&G's I've done, they've had me as the last part of the evening, so staying after hasn't been a problem. I do like your idea of going on right after the dessert, though, in case I do need to make a quick exit for another gig or something. I charge $200-$250 for B & G's, and with BOR typically get another $50 - $100, so it's been worth it for me to stay an extra 20 - 30 minutes afterwards. Not sure it would be worth it if I had to stay much longer than that. But, it also gives the kids a chance to meet me and say hi, and it's amazing how many of them want an autograph! This provides an opportunity to personalize my giveaways (coloring sheets or Big Bucks), and makes the kids hang on to my contact info a little longer than they otherwise might. Parents have a chance then to ask for business cards, which they often do.
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