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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-01-10 08:07, gdw wrote: Not to speak for Kam, but I didn't read his post as suggesting that the decision will "become right," but rather that it is more likely that decisions that are right (inherently) will be reached by having more parties involved in the moral reasoning process (in "close" cases). Which is not to say that I agree with the point. I certainly *dis*agree with the point that as a result "everyone" will be assured of the moral correctness of the decision. In fact, I doubt such a process would change many minds at all.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts |
Is it wrong to steal back what the elite have stolen from the people?
I hope so.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-01-10 03:51, tommy wrote: I think that if we relied on nature as our guide, we'd have a far different conception of "rights" that would approximate what you suggest here - that they either don't exist, or are just expressions of or tied to "might." Beyond "for the sake of argument," though, I disagree with the premise that nature is a reliable (or necessary or useful) model from which to learn in this regard.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-01-10 06:48, Woland wrote: Amazing that "Do not murder" is spelled the same way in the original language as it is in English
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Not as amazing as finding out that killing in self-defense is wrong.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-01-10 10:11, tommy wrote: Not recalling what Robin Hood actually "advocated" I take it? The commonly said "stealing from the rich to give to the poor" is a gross misrepresentation. Robin Hood took back what had been stolen. As Woland expanded upon above, what's wrong for the individual does not suddenly become "right" for the majority, or any number. To take someone else's properly by force, or threat of force, is USUALLY called stealing, but when a certain group does it, often under the claim of "for the greater good," it's suddenly called "taxing" and magically becomes "moral.". In fact it's also suddenly considered immoral to not hand over your property to gun backed robbe-I'm sorry, tax collectors.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-01-10 09:58, Woland wrote: You've just sumerized the foundation of my philosophy Woland.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-01-10 10:25, kambiz wrote: Kam, are you ignoring that this approach is exactly what lead to Hitler, and a country eager to welcome him?
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
Hitler point! Missed Kam's original post. Belated Hitler point!
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
This particular meandering by-thread began with questioning whether it was wrong for Claus von Stauffenberg and others to try to kill Adolf Hitler. I think certainly not. I introduced the example of robbery a la Robin Hood in order to provide a more mundane or quotidian example of how a criminal behavior is not transformed into a virtuous good deed by the fact that many people, even millions of people, are joined together in its execution.
critter, your point about using one English translation to counter another English translation is a good one, but I think that you will find that most Biblical scholars agree that the commandment is "Do Not Murder," and not "Do Not Kill." In my opinion, a lot of the moral confusion we encounter when people discuss capital punishment, self-defense, and just war comes from having been taught a mis-translated and incorrect statement that they erroneously believe to be the word of God. Just saying. W. |
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
My point wasn't really a serious one.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
But it has serious implications. How do we know what we think we know, after all? Do we know everything in translation? That is, is all of our knowledge mediated by other consciousnesses?
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts |
Nature tells us that rights are related to consciousness. Rocks, plants, animals, Humans, each do not have the same rights. The rock has less rights than the plant, the plant less than the animal, the animal less than the human, even though we all came out of this old world of ours and are made of the same stuff. Each has a an amount of rights in relation to the amount of consciousness it has. If a more advanced entities arrived on earth then they would have more rights than you human beings. Obviously, I the magician have more rights than the muggle.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
What "Nature," if anything, tells us, is that the mechanisms of life are very diverse, resist easy generalization, and that there are many different solutions to the problems of survival.
The more Humans that have input and communicate with each other about how to solve the problem of survival for this particular species, the better chance we have at arriving at something that might actually work.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
My points are very well supplemented by landmark's comments above....we can never generalize a given situation, a consultative process must be implemented to resolve any problem, whether it has familial, neighbourhood, community, national or international implications.
I won't get into how God fits into all this, my ideas are somewhat radical and will open a possible can of worms.... Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-01-10 12:46, gdw wrote: Yes I acknowledge that, and its also somewhat similar to how the Ayatollah Khomeini came to power (much to the demise of my family's and co-religious members freedom and welfare and lives) However, as I have said, the consciousness of the globe as a single entity is organically maturing with time, we are slowly developing an understanding of what impact an act in Africa can have on the whole world (for example). What happened with Hitler and the Ayatollah are as a resilt of the immaturity in understanding the glabal import of such decisions. Secondly, there was no real consultative process with the decision of Hitler to come into power, there was no genuine equality in that process, nor was there purity of intent with its intended outcome. All of these factors are important for the process to be running perfectly and only with time will these things develop..... There is a global community that implements these ideas extremenly well (although it is still not perfect, but its way ahead of any other global system) and it is working hard with the UN to implement these principles globally... Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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Woland Special user 680 Posts |
The UN is one of the most corrupt institutions in the history of the world. What the UN is working hard to implement is a totalitarian, socialist world government in which individual rights and national sovereignty are extinguished.
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Steve_Mollett Inner circle Eh, so I've made 3006 Posts |
And Martian cylinders will start crashing on Earth any day now.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth. - Albert Camus |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts |
And it shall come to pass that the Martian cylinders shall contain our rights and new commandments?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-01-10 22:32, Steve_Mollett wrote: Is this in response to the Statement about the UN, or the one about the globe having a consciousness as a single entity?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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