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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » 1 In Every 99 Americans Now Behind Bars (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Rupert Bair
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I am prisoner in my own mind and body. 1 in a 10000000000.
Margarette
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Memphis area
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Quote:
On 2008-02-28 23:12, Timothy Drake wrote:
Don't leave us hanging Margarette.. tell us more. LOL



Well, let's just say that when one works for the company that is doing the re-design/renovation of the current jail, one has to look at the current facilities to see what needs to be improved.

Margarette
The only stupid question is the one not asked.
Al Angello
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Collegeville, Pa. USA
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I have two things to say.
1. Margarette is my first choice for a cell mate.
2. How many of those poor unfortunet prisoners are doing time for victimless crimes?????
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com
http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/
"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2008-02-29 01:22, MagicSanta wrote:
I'm sorry, you are correct, Canada has 'Free!' medical for all, no cost, nada, perfect in all ways... Blah blah blah.


Sorry, I don't see the relevance to the incarceration thread.

Quote:
John, the reason we have more in prison is because we have more criminals.


Uh. Isn't that the thing that we're trying to explain?

John

PS Some time ago, I did post my health care premiums. They are relatively modest. And as for the expense, that is currently the greatest challenge to the imperfect health care system in this imperfect country. Perhaps one day we'll have things a perfectly worked out as you seem to have...
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
LobowolfXXX
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La Famiglia
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Quote:
On 2008-02-28 23:45, rossmacrae wrote:
I'm quoting from the blog of one of my family's dearest friends, an attorney in Arlington, Virginia:

For over 20 years I've represented criminal defendants in the Virginia courts. Most of my clients have been lower income, minority, under-educated individuals with drug and alcohol problems. Some have significant mental health issues and are referred to as dual diagnosis.

Criminal defendants do not exist in a vacuum. Many have at least one child, at least one significant other (some have an impressive array of significant others, but I digress), and one or more parents or grandparents whose lives will be affected by their incarceration. Few things are more disheartening than watching a mother of young children go to prison for two or three years because her drug addiction is out of control and she steals to support it. It's difficult to tell distraught parents and dependents of such people that they may have to do without them for a few years. An extraordinary number of grandparents are raising their children's children or even their grandchildren's children. In these fractured families the children are at extremely high risk for early involvement in drugs, sex, and alcohol...

Diversion programs ... are a better alternative. Diversion programs require the inmates to engage in counseling, critical self-analysis, job training, and proper management of their finances. Participants are required to pay their child support, address their addictions, learn new behaviors and take personal responsibility for their actions. Does anyone think warehousing people for years is even equal to the positive aspects of a diversion program?

Not everyone in a diversion program succeeds. Sometimes my clients are brought back before the court - it may be years after their diversion - for probation violations. Sometimes life's problems catch up with them and they decompensate, fall of the wagon, and re-offend. Mental health professionals understand this, that recovery from addiction is often a two steps forward/one step back type of process.

I could spend the next two hours highlighting my pet peeves with the criminal justice system. There are far too many offenses which have been labeled felonies, and far too many offenses which are actually symptomatic of social diseases or mental health disorders but which are aggressively prosecuted. There are few resources available for defendants who are genuinely mentally ill. Most diversion programs will not take dual diagnosis inmates. If they are bipolar, schizophrenic, suffering from other disorders requiring medication, then they are SOL when it comes to getting any help. We warehouse our mentally ill inmates and then kick them out into society to re-offend. Still, however, inmates who are eligible for diversion programs more often than not benefit from them. There are some good outpatient treatment programs and some good alternative diversion programs which gradually release inmates onto probation and into society. Some of my clients have gone through such programs, and years later I encounter them in the role of counselor to another inmate seeking diversion.


Anything on the blog about his take on when he tries to ensure that the non-mentally-ill rapists, murders, armed robbers, assault-with-deadly-weaponers, etc. spend no time segregated from the rest of us?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Steve_Mollett
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Eh, so I've made
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I'm an escape artist; any response from me would skew the results. Smile
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
MagicSanta
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John, Mr. Drake asked about the pride of Canada, health care. Oh, 1 in 99 Americans are not behind bars, a great many of them are not Americans. Say, if I went to Canada on vacation, god knows why I would but lets pretend, and I needed a doctor would I also receive treatment at no cost or is it only for card carrying members of the Canada party?
The Drake
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Quote:
On 2008-03-01 01:43, MagicSanta wrote:
John, Mr. Drake asked about the pride of Canada, health care. Oh, 1 in 99 Americans are not behind bars, a great many of them are not Americans. Say, if I went to Canada on vacation, god knows why I would but lets pretend, and I needed a doctor would I also receive treatment at no cost or is it only for card carrying members of the Canada party?


Actually MagicSanta,

I didn't ask about Health Care. I was commenting on your past trolling of the topic and the fact that you'd already used that topic as bait.

Since you asked...and its a good question. To my knowledge you'd be treated and later billed for the service. As you pointed out earlier our taxes pay for the service and that's why we don't pay medical bills for treatment. Visitors to the country do not paying into the system with their taxes so they are not entitled to payment free service. Its sort of a mandatory insurance program. We think of it as similar to the Social Security program found in the US. We contribute and later use it when we need to.

If an American is visiting Canada I'd recommend they do the same thing I do when I visit the US. I purchase medical insurance for the duration of my trip.

Best,

Tim

Day 1 http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......rum=32&3
balducci
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Quote:
On 2008-02-29 01:16, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Well Tim, I'd say that Balducci trolled the bait this time, and MagicSanta bit.

Honestly, there was no intentional trolling on my part.

I simply saw an interesting news story ... and figured that with "34,213 registered members" on the Café ... well, you do the math.

I must say, I am surprised at the turns this thread has taken.

---
Day 1
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
vinsmagic
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sleeping with the fishes...
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I'M A PRISONER OF LOVE.......
Come check out my magic.

http://www.vinnymarini.com
MagicSanta
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Here in the US we let even illigal aliens have free medical... even if they were ex prisoners.
Big Jeff
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I saw on Fox News that some prisoner in Massechusetts(sp) is getting a free SEX CHANGE and he is going to be one UGLY woman. Sounds like he is really being punished. WHAT A COUNTRY!
balducci
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Quote:
On 2008-03-01 15:22, Al Angello wrote:

"Fox and news is an oxymoron."

Al, how can you say that. Without a doubt, Fox reports the News that Matters!

"Web Site Offers Free Breast Implants
Friday, February 29, 2008
By Sara Bonisteel
Fox NEWS"

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,334168,00.html

(Still only Day 1)
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
MagicSanta
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Interestingly, Big Jeff, my niece was one ugly woman and had a sex change and now he is one ugly dude.
Al Angello
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Balducci
I deleted my post because I did not want to be too controversial, but the cat is out of the bag now.

The Fox anchors all have long blond hair and evening gowns on. How could you call that news? Roger Ales wouldn't know a news story if he fell over it.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
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"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
Bill Nuvo
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Prisons are often a refuge for some. As magicsanta pointed out, they give free medical (US). They also give you free food. They also give you free counseling services, job prep, education/training (often just minimal levels, but it still is there) and for some...err...networking opportunities. Don't forget, the rent is also free.

The study is actually a little flawed not taking in account the time of year (start of 2008). Many homeless and poor peoples will commit minor crimes to get a 2-3 month sentence to be somewhere out of the cold winter. The numbers may be correct (or nearly), but the reasoning may not.

It's been known for a while that prison is not necessarily a deterrent. I believe that the above reason's I give are part of that problem (how big or small a part I can't begin to speculate).

Day 1
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......rum=32&3
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2008-03-01 15:53, mrbilldentertainer wrote:
Prisons are often a refuge for some. As magicsanta pointed out, they give free medical (US). They also give you free food. They also give you free counseling services, job prep, education/training (often just minimal levels, but it still is there) and for some...err...networking opportunities. Don't forget, the rent is also free.

The study is actually a little flawed not taking in account the time of year (start of 2008). Many homeless and poor peoples will commit minor crimes to get a 2-3 month sentence to be somewhere out of the cold winter. The numbers may be correct (or nearly), but the reasoning may not.

It's been known for a while that prison is not necessarily a deterrent. I believe that the above reason's I give are part of that problem (how big or small a part I can't begin to speculate).

Day 1
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......rum=32&3


Hard to argue with "necessarily," but prison is, in fact, a deterrent. What usually happens, though, is that stiffer sentences for one type of crime result in a decrease in incidents of that crime, and not a switch to law-abiding behavior, but rather a switch to another type of crime.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
The Drake
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I'd be curious to see a " Scared Straight" 20 years later tv special to see how many of the troubled youth avoided future trouble. Anyone remember that show that created such a still so long ago?

Best,

Tim

Day 1
balducci
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Well, since several of you are discussing this article in such seriousness, you can find the full report here:

http://stage.pewcenteronthestates.org/up......0100.pdf

http://www.pewcenteronthestates.org/init......ID=31336

http://www.pewcenteronthestates.org/news......id=35912

The State by State and International Comparisons in the Appendices are especially interesting.

(Still only Day 1)
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
LobowolfXXX
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I do...that was a good idea for a show.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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