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Mikael Eriksson Inner circle None of your business 1064 Posts |
When we learn foreign languages, memory techniques are perfect. But I have a problem. If I want to memorize the swedish equals for abstract english words (or spanish or whatever language), for example "if" or "for" or "because", there are not really any objects I can think about instead of those words, and the associations must be very hands-on and clear to be remembered.
An example of how I can sucessfully memorize the swedish equal for the spanish word "gato" which means cat. "gato" sounds like the swedish word for street, so I imagine an empty street with a cat crossing it. And I remember the swedish meaning like a charm in this example. But it doesn't work with abstract words like "if" or "for" or "because", since there are not really any objects I can substitute them with, and since any objects I might after all be able to use don't have anything to do with the true meanings of the words. Is there a solution? |
abc Inner circle South African in Taiwan 1081 Posts |
I have already read your question twice and was afraid to post because I am really not in the mood to get involved in a (someone copies a link of a website and we all read and discuss this great new approach) game. It is like we never accept ablities or professions of the other members here especially in fields like medicine and philosophy.
In any case, here is your answer. Yes, there is a solution. Not much research has been done by liguists as to how we memorize language and the few studies that have actually followed scientific principles do not always agree on the findings. As for memory in general many studies have been done and they can be used in language aquirement in general. People tend to remember things better if they understand it and if it is visual to them. You remember pictures much better than words which is why your example of cat and gato is very easy remember. That in itself is your answer. You need to find a way to visualize or at least internalize an abstract concept. I will give you an example of one. You can remember if as giving a condition of something. "If you pee on my shoes I am going to hit you." Every other word in the sentence is relatively easy in the other language so you really only need to remember the sentence to remember the word. You choose an unlikely sentence (humorous is always better) because it is easier to recall as your example. Everytime you need to make a "this---ten that" sentence you can easily substitute the words and keep "if" where it is. Remember to check if different word orders are acceptable such as "I am going to hit you if you pee on my shoes" Lyrics of songs are also very good especially if you like and know the song. When you have a word that has more than one "abstract" meaning the word can be checked against your sentence examples. It is easier for adults to memorize the grammar structure and often more usefull than for younger learners. You could get "at" a place, or "at" a time so it may be easier to remember the grammatical rule for "at" rather than the example although I do think that both serve a good purpose. The idea really is to attach another word to your "abstract" concept in order to put it into context and then remember the relevant context. Once you get used to memorizing language like this it becomes very easy to remember. Frequent correct use of the example sentence in conversation (more than writing in my opinion) would internalize the concept meaning that you eventually no longer have to check the meaning against your original example. The concept has then been successfully acquired. Writing 20 page exercises on when to use which is not as helpful as the authors of many grammar books would lead you to believe. Get a check - sentence. Translate and understand the meaning. Use it by checking. Use it without checking. Those are basically the four steps. Also note that in the above example for "at" we say "at night" but 'in the morning". This is a perfect example of when a check sentence would be much more efficient than the grammar rule. It may sound stupid to speakers of Engish who learned it as tnative speakers and it may sound like a waste of time to assign a check sentence to every word but as long as you use it frequently and not become an over checker (you check everything before you speak) you should be fine. Remember that language acquisition is all about using it. There is nothing wrong with making mistakes. There is something wrong with internalizing the mistake and using it as the correct form without knowing that it is incorrect or that the meaning is lost. I am too tired to read all of this again so if there are spelling mistakes or it doesn't sound logical just PM me a question and I will gladly answer it. |
Mikael Eriksson Inner circle None of your business 1064 Posts |
Wow, that was a long post. Thanks for replying.
Your opinions are useful to some extent, especially later on in the internalizing of the language, but what I'm looking for is a solution to using the memory system I'm using, associations. Is there a way of making the associations show the true meanings of abstract words? I can add that I have tried letting people in my associations say sentences that contain the swedish word, but it works extremely poorly. |
abc Inner circle South African in Taiwan 1081 Posts |
The reason it will not work is because it is neither visual nor audible. The easiest way would be to associate a sentence with the picture instead of the word.
If I have to use your above example: Assuming the street is packed with cars racing at a high speed. You still have cat and street in the sentence so now try to visualize a sentence of what will happen IF the cat crosses the street. So now make a new sentence. OM the cat cross the street KABO"OM"! Once you are comfortable with that translate more of the sentence. OM the KATT cross the GATO then ....." Finally convert it to a proper Swedish sentence and try to remember and use it in context bby replacing other verbs and nouns that you already now. I cannot give you better examples but you have to associate the abstract concept or word with an association that is not abstract. Like in the abbove example it is also useful to use sounds that are concrete like KABOOM. You are very likely to remember it, and it makes (or should make) phonetical sense. |
MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
My father learned languages (he speaks in addition to English French, Spanish, Japanese, and Mandarine (sp)) by starting out connecting the word he was learning to another he already knew that sounded familiar. He then just learned it by practicing the rest.
Story. He was in Japan working and one of the engineers from the US came over with his family and this guy had a little boy of about four. The kid was obsessed with the movie Dumbo so he would walk up to the Japanese and bow and say "dumbo" and the locals would be thrilled because they thought this cute little boy was saying "dumo"! Forgive spelling. |
LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
I have to say, that sounds like an awfully cumbersome way to learn a language.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
He used it for some words the rest was real world practice and traditional classes. What was interesting was he was working in Spain, the Northern part, and the only Spanish class was taught by a French gal but there was a French class where the teacher spoke English. So my father learned French and then Spanish. He just is gifted in language...and math.
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abc Inner circle South African in Taiwan 1081 Posts |
From my experience it is easier to learn a 3rd or 4th language than a second language. Your brain gets used to memorizing new structures and words and it does become easier. Another reason is that languages are divided into families because of similarities in origin and syntax. If you already know a language from a certain family than learning a similar language is not that hard.
A speaker of Spanish would learn French a lot easier than a Chinese speaker. The grammar is really difficult for native Mandarin speakers. Someone who has studied Mandarin (tonation very difficult, grammar very easy, writing difficult but vocabulary easy) would probably find learning Cantonese or Hokkien much easier as 3rd or 4th language. |
MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
I knew a lil' kid who's mother was from Taiwan and dad from the US, the father worked for my dad in Taiwan. The little girl had a very rough voice and it sounded really strange when she spoke the sing songy Chinese. I'll tell you this, in California when my dad speaks Chinese the Chinese do not like it at all and mum up. I had a clerk once who was fluent in Chinese and was a military translator and once the Chinese employees found out they actually complained to HR that white people shouldn't be allowed to understand them. Nice huh?
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Scott Cram Inner circle 2678 Posts |
I've always found the Town Language Mnemonic handy. Let me explain the basics, and then I'll describe the answer to your specific challenge.
In the Town Language Mnemonic, you use your hometown (either the one you live in now, or the one you remember most fondly) as a basis for the mnemonics. As you learn nouns, you can picture them anywhere downtown. Put the people, places and things and their associated images for the word around the downtown area in a way you'll remember them. Verbs are all pictured in the local sports stadium, or a gym. The actions are easily pictured and the connections made there. Adjectives are pictured in the local park. When you see a weird image in the park, you know it's an adjective, and when you see an adjective, you know you'll find the answer in the park. But what about small, picture-less words like you're working with? There's a few steps here. First, you're going to picture them as taking place in a library, bookstore, or newspaper office (some place associated with looking up thing). Next, you're going to turn these words into images that you can remember. "Because"? Think of a bee with gigantic claws flying around the library. "Bee Claws"="because". Seeing these images in the library will help remind you that they are small, common words, and aren't to be taken at their face value. "A"? How about an Ape? "An"? Maybe an ant. Substitute some image for the small words, and place them in the library so you'll remember that these images. A good place to find useful images is by searching wikipedia, especially their disambiguation pages. Trying to think of an image you could use for "if"? Check out all the things "If" can mean at wikipedia! As a matter of fact, check out the possibilities for because, a and an! |
Mikael Eriksson Inner circle None of your business 1064 Posts |
One of the problems is that the english word has to sound like a swedish thing. But of course, with fantasy I could come up with something that sound similar.
But do you have a solution for the main problem? How to make a connection to the meaning of the non-material words in my example? The best solution yet seems to be to use a word that sound similar to the words I try to memorize. For example the swedish word for "for" is "för", which also means the front of a boat. I'll just have to remember that "for" doesn't mean the front of a boat. Another example, "because" is "därför att" in swedish. It's pronounced about the same as "Darfur", the conflict area in Sudan. I guess I could think about starving people just as long as I remember that "because" doesn't mean literally what I see in my association. |
Doug Higley 1942 - 2022 7152 Posts |
Change the target word in your mind...For becomes Fur...visualize Fur or hairy...most people pronounce For as Fer anyway.
Higley's Giant Flea Pocket Zibit
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Mikael Eriksson Inner circle None of your business 1064 Posts |
I prefer to memorize english words this way:
1. What swedish word does the english word sound like? 2. Connect that swedish word with the meaning of the english word. So you can see I prefer to memorize the words the opposite way than most others, I prefer to be able firstly to translate from english to swedish. Most others learn to translate from swedish to english. |
stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
Swedish babes are hot.
Just sayin... |
stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
But getting serious I would say this:
Don't translate words. Translate ideas and thoughts. But don't listen to me. I'm fixated on thinking about Swedish babes.... Just sayin.... Jeff |
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