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The Mac Inner circle 1982 Posts |
I was watching a youtube video were derren makes a girl perceive one colour as another..she see's red as black etc. In the video he seems to use anchoring and such which are nlp methods.okay,fine but then Derren also slates NLP in a variety of places.
Now is it just a special sort of misdirection for the NLP-ers out there or is it an actuyal demontration of NLP? A curious note is that a lot of his video's are being put up by NLP people. I guess it comes down to : is NLP really that powerful? Is derren lying to us magicians about NLP so he can keep it all to himself? IF so then do you feel his books are just another device and method of misdirection for the Talented Mr. Brown? |
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vai Regular user 135 Posts |
Its certainly an interesting thought,
My experience of trying to work out Derren's effects usually finishes with me huddled in a corner muttering quietly "he's a jedi, that's the only way", so I by no means profess to be an expert. However, there's an interesting idea in the movie "the prestige" where a magician is so dedicated to his art that he is prepared to live as his performing character in order to preserve his methods. Is this possibly the case with Derren ? Derren's dedication to the art is astounding and the curiosity about his use (or lack thereof) of NLP is part of the fun to me. Derren himself said somewhere that he openly admits to using both traditional magic and psychological methods but the game is guessing which he is using at any given time. I guess the answer lies in another question......... If you were Derren, how far would you go to preserve your methods ?
Check out my releases at http://stores.lulu.com/mentalism
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Wow.
Ok lets just say that was a movie you were watching, as was Star Wars. You guys are REALLY going to need to do a bit of research. I don't even know where to start. He has 0 powers ok? ZERO. Accept this and we can help you.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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The Mac Inner circle 1982 Posts |
Danny, Who said he had any powers?
Your "know it all" condecending tone is really irritating. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
No what is really irritating is those who want to believe in some sort of powers we posess like "I was mumbling in the corner 'he is a Jedi'"
This does not help hypnosis in any form. What I am saying is that if you accept the fact that 90% of what he does is for TV and edited that is a good starting point. I am saying that if you accept the fact that if you do just a bit of research and have confidence in YOU that this is not beyond you. I am saying that NLP is an effort to "quantify art" and mostly hogwash. Derren is 100% right. The "idea" if NLP is more of an art form that is practiced by street cops doing an interrigation. Study those techniques and you will have FAR more of a base for what you want. The "idea" is right, but when it is expanded to sell things, it loses a LOT. If that sounded condecending let me appologise. I did not mean it too. It was an attempt to clear up what was said in the first post. I am sorry if it was condecending. I hope I was a bit more clear and less condecending in this post. Let me know.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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The Mac Inner circle 1982 Posts |
I don't believe he has any powers. As a trained professional in television and media I'm fully aware of editing. I don't believe anything in magic or its related art is beyond me.
I am at a cross roads when it comes to NLP. I studied a lot of it years ago, before everyone was a "guru".Derren Brown has obviously studied NLP because it is evident in his performances, maybe too evident which is why I posed the question is he really using NLP or using the "look of it" for misdirection..and the other questions in my post. |
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Anthony Jacquin Inner circle UK 2220 Posts |
The Mac,
he is using it for misdirection or rather pseudo explanation. The greatest trick he ever pulled was convincing the NLP community that if they just knew a bit more they would be able to do what he does. That said he does use some hypnosis, but not a lot. He uses hypnosis in a few effects. The vast majority however rely on traditional mentalism, dual reality and clever edits. When you see him put someone in a 'trance' it is not related to the method used to achieve the effect (see The Gathering). On other occasions where he uses complex NLP style verbiage may have used some pre-show hypnosis but rarely, more often it is dual reality. Hope that helps. Anthony
Anthony Jacquin
Reality is Plastic! The Art of Impromptu Hypnosis Updated for 2016 Now on Kindle and Audible! |
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The Mac Inner circle 1982 Posts |
That's what I feel as well.
Another thing I don't get is how the magic community can condone editing from Derren brown but they crucify Criss Angel. |
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Anthony Jacquin Inner circle UK 2220 Posts |
Quote:
Another thing I don't get is how the magic community can condone editing from Derren brown but they crucify Criss Angel. Good question. I guess it because Angel is known for blatantly stooging some effects. Also Derrens use of the edit is cleverly done and is easily missed. Anthony
Anthony Jacquin
Reality is Plastic! The Art of Impromptu Hypnosis Updated for 2016 Now on Kindle and Audible! |
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The Mac Inner circle 1982 Posts |
I thikn its because Derren fooled magicians as well and they are too scared to accuse him of stoogery because they can't be sure...
more derren debate..this time by smart laymen: http://www.skepchick.org/skepticsguide/v......start=01 Its interesting to read what people other than magicians think about DB and his portrayal of psychological skills and hypnosis. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-03-02 14:53, The Mac wrote: I wish you would find some of my old posts, really not liking this one bit. EITHER of them! I don't mind editing you see, only when it IS the solution and you get caught, then it bothers the heck out of me. But then again, when they do it, and then they come to see a show where it is not possible, you look that much better. I may send these guys some chocolate or a Lobster Gram in thanks
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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beds Regular user isle of wight uk 192 Posts |
I'm sure derren used hypnosis on "the system" which was aired a few weeks back, off camera, as he made 4 ppl choose pictures that he preiously predicted and all of the chosen photos had the same initials as the person that chose them and they were the only people with matching initials out the 500 pictures
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
This is a "trick" and not hypnosis.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Athos Elite user NADO - Mind reader 481 Posts |
Just come with your own methods.
A lot of people felt in the geist of NLP and Conversational Hypnotism while looking Derren. Just take a look at Practical Mental Magic by Theodore Amnemann, take these effects and hype them, make it yours with methods you like. Derren works out all his material, if you want to be like him, do so. Of course his shows use Clever eddits, but don't let it fool you.
NADO
«How much of a gift it would be to really know what someone is thinking of?» - Steeve Blanchet, news anchor, TVA «Here is someone that truly uses his powers for good.» - David Meclomesnil, weekend radio. |
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Katherine Anne New user 91 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-03-02 11:43, vai wrote: LOL as do most of us... that's one of the many reasons why DB is so fascinating to me...he fools several groups of people at once. Most amgicians/mentalists/whatever he is, fools only one crowd....the common bystander. Mr. Brown is able to fool the common bystander, the magican, the mentalist, the hypnotist, and those who study in NLP. THAT is an ingenious reputation to have, and the fact that DB always keeps us guessing is what makes me enjoy his work even more. IMHO, he is one of the best "Psychological Illusionist" of our time....his magiican of the year award is so well deserved. KA |
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Vincent.Lynch Elite user 409 Posts |
I believe
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-03-02 10:48, The Mac wrote: It would be MUCH simpler to just find a copy of Trance-formations or the first few Bandler books on NLP and just learn a little. Good tool for therapists - not much of a "hypnosis" tool though IMHO
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Athos Elite user NADO - Mind reader 481 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-03-04 17:37, Jonathan Townsend wrote: Sleight of Mind by Ian Harling and Martin Nyrup is good too.
NADO
«How much of a gift it would be to really know what someone is thinking of?» - Steeve Blanchet, news anchor, TVA «Here is someone that truly uses his powers for good.» - David Meclomesnil, weekend radio. |
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Nongard1 Special user 664 Posts |
NLP Essentails by Richard Nongard
Lots of demonstrations Learning by DVD is much easier tahn a book! http://subliminalscience.com/index.php?m......ts_id=88
Dr. Richard Nongard, Professional Hypnosis Training
Learn how to master the art of SpeedTrance, Clinical and Stage Hypnosis |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
I was not suggesting "learning" NLP, just getting reading what the inventors had in mind and maybe trying out anchoring and ... okay maybe also sliding anchors just to experience for oneself that this is not "tricks".
As to learning NLP, get to a course or ask someone who's certfied for help - as ... this is one of those things you learn by doing - just watching a DVD may let you see some and hear some but till YOU are getting live feedback it's just a movie.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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