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molsen Special user Copenhagen 552 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-03-07 09:32, mmreed wrote: As you indicate, it's all in the presentation. If we ask our spectators whether they believe in magic, most will say no. If we ask instead whether they would *like to* believe, at least for a little while, most will say yes. We should present the tricks in a way that allows them to believe in magic while they watch, not try to force a magic feeling on them. "Look, I shuffle the cards. Pick one. Remember it. Put it here. I shuffle again. Your card is now on the top. Look," is not really good presentation; it's narrating what people already see. "(shuffling the cards) You know how it is to go to a department store with your kid? I was out shopping with my kid the other day. (offer a card to the spec.) Let's pretend this card is the kid, please remember it. (receive the card back) It was busy that day, and my kid got lost in the crowd (shuffle). Luckily I know how my kid thinks, and I went to the toy shop at the top floor (riffle the deck), looking for my kid. Do you remember the card? How does my kid look? (turn the top card over) Luckily my kid was there, happily looking at the toys!" This an alternative. (I don't use this, feel free to make it your own. You can substitute kid for "girlfriend" and toys with "shoes", and you'd probably want to consider a more interesting reveal.) Whether you like this presentation or not, it presents a story that allows the spec. to believe you apply magic in order to have something as common as a deck of cards assist in illustrating the story, rather than the other way around. You've got to take the tricks you perform and make them your own in this way. Eugene Burger is a good source of inspiration to me. His presentations always seem to be a larger ingredient than his sleights, and with good reason. Just my 2 cents. |
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Andy the cardician Inner circle A street named after my dad 3362 Posts |
This is a great topic, and the discussion can go deep. The question is fantastic - are you doing magic or just showing a trick, a stunt?
The answer is in the way you present the trick, the way you build up the expectations and create the mental picture within the audience.
Cards never lie
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trickytrav Veteran user 391 Posts |
It is all in the presentation, and it is also how it is perceived by the spectators.
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gaddy Inner circle Agent of Chaos 3526 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-03-05 15:19, mmreed wrote: An artificial differentiation that smacks of pretension, and one that is of no use to me. Just do magic, or just show 'em a trick. Whatever you like!
*due to the editorial policies here, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
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JasonbytheOcean Regular user Washington, D.C. 102 Posts |
Gaddy,
If it's of no use to you, that's fine - Eugene Burger noted on his recent DVD "Exploring Magical Presentations" that "stunts" work perfectly well for some well-known performers, but that they're not the kind of magic he wants to do. I hardly think this smacks of pretension or is an artificial way to separate different genres of performing as a magician. I think that there is a very real difference in an audience perceiving someone who is "doing magic" and someone "doing a trick." Both can be appropriate in different settings. I've observed a genuine difference in response to my audiences when I perform tricks that are immersed in some theme, as compared to when I perform the same effects as quick stunts. Because of my style and preferences, I've gravitated toward magic with a theme that tries to elicit some emotion or establish another connection with my audience. Not everything I do has that element, but much of it does. It's about what I want to draw from my audience, what is appropriate given the setting I'm performing in, and what I'd like them to remember when I walk away. |
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airship Inner circle In my day, I have driven 1594 Posts |
I'm an amateur, and I do a lot of stuff just for fun and play it for laughs.
If I'm not doing that, I try to use the context of "Perception vs. Reality" and present what I do as "an experiment". It keeps me away from trying to pass myself off as a "magician", whatever that is.
'The central secret of conjuring is a manipulation of interest.' - Henry Hay
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gaddy Inner circle Agent of Chaos 3526 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-03-10 09:18, JasonbytheOcean wrote: And what setting is that? This is the old "Tricks" vs. "Effects" discussion in a new wrapper.
*due to the editorial policies here, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
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JasonbytheOcean Regular user Washington, D.C. 102 Posts |
Clarification - Both can be appropriate in the same setting, by different performers. In other words, a magician can perform "stunts" or perform something more involved theatrically with story/plot/meaning/etc. It's the performer's call on the way they want to perform a given trick. I have my preferences for what I like to see and perform. However, I'm also not going to criticize someone who does it another way if it works for them, and no one leaves the stage feeling like they got a bum deal from the performer.
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gaddy Inner circle Agent of Chaos 3526 Posts |
Neither am I; however, we are all magicians here and are talking shop. And I maintain that this debate is one of semantics.
I do concede that the original poster was probably hoping to pose a philosophical question and not to merely "put on airs", but I feel that it's not really time well spent contemplating such a distinction when one could be spending more time rehearsing and practicing, which is where most magicians fall short (IMHO). ...Consider all the wonderfully thematic, philosophical, and imaginative Bizarre Magic that has been written up over the past 25 years or so that has and NEVER WILL BE performed because it was no more than a thought exercise or philosophical "axe to grind"... Yours respectfully, G "No, Michael... That wasn't one of my tricks. It was one of my ILLUSIONS!!!" -George Oscar Bluth II
*due to the editorial policies here, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
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Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
Speaking for myself, there is the trap of, what am I rehearsing and practicing? The specific moves required to make the elements of a trick function, or the showmanship that surrounds this collection of moves and makes it an entertainments package? I must confess that I have spent too much time in the past concentrating merely on the moves and forgot the showmanship.
The other day, I had a wonderful conversation with a "big name" performer and magic creator. He thought we were simply discussing one of his effects and whether it was right for me. But what I came away with was how much the aspect of the entire show plays into how an effect is created and used. If all we're talking about is a single sleight, then probably that is all there is. But the creation of an effect by putting one or more sleights together into a coherent entertainment package probably takes paying attention to more than just mechanics. Isn't this the difference between practice and rehearsal? I know a major part of my previous failures and dissatisfaction with my magic was that I only practiced the "secrets" and rarely practiced the "show". Maybe just semantics. But the words do mean different things to me, and indicate different mindsets. Ed |
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molsen Special user Copenhagen 552 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-03-10 18:43, Ed_Millis wrote: Most people refer to "practicing" when training the sleights and mechanics of the trick, and "rehearsing" when training the presentation, script and audience interaction. Some people (myself included) feel they spend too much time practicing and too little rehearsing. Michael |
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gaddy Inner circle Agent of Chaos 3526 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-03-10 18:43, Ed_Millis wrote: For me, it's the opposite. I've always been told I'm a great and likable performer- but my magic sucks. LOL! Some people just got it, whatever "it" is...
*due to the editorial policies here, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
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Andy the cardician Inner circle A street named after my dad 3362 Posts |
Ed,
this means that you have it to be great Andy
Cards never lie
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donrodrigo Special user U.S.A. and Europe 635 Posts |
Ok friends,
I would like to know in what vocabulary and or dictionary new or old can we find that our magical forefathers used the word TRICK. I don't think Merlin was ever asked to do such.Did he exist?? Respectfully I always hated to hear to do such,I replied: My dog does tricks I'll perform a magical effect. Has the magic gotten away from reality or have the audiences gotten wiser.The distinction between creating a magicall effect to a trick. The audience the moment they see us they want to be spellbounded in their imagination.We must be able to control it to win their applause. |
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erlandish Inner circle Vancouver, Canada 1254 Posts |
Don,
It's just a word. If you don't like the word, don't use it in your acts. If your magic is fantastic, and they still have the audacity to ask, "That's a trick, right?" then you can just smile and answer "Maybe." |
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Jaz Inner circle NJ, U.S. 6111 Posts |
Magicians before us have used the word trick.
What words you use, magic, trick, magic trick, depends on who you are, what your style is and the situation. When performing at a gig, magic is expected and nothing need be said. When asked to perform by friends I often get, "Any new magic tricks?" or similar. Like erlandish said, "It's just a word." It's what happens in their mind that matters. |
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fxdude Loyal user Hollywood 241 Posts |
I haven't read everyone's comments so this may have already been said. I perform mainly in from of friends, family, and co-workers for now. The best piece of advice that I've received was that these people are your toughest audience. You will never be able to perform magic for them because they all know that you're not magical. You can only perform tricks for them. You can still get amazing reactions though.
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Cyar Regular user 132 Posts |
There's some interesting resources mentioned on performance in the "One book on performance: an alternative to Strong Magic by Ortiz?" thread
I told those f***s down at the league office a thousand times that I don't roll on Shabbos!
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davidbreth New user Angeles City, Philippines 69 Posts |
Mark,
We strongly suggest you grab the DVD with the live performance by Denny & Lee! Call Denny 410-686-3914 and tell him you want the DVD of his live act! Watch this the first time for the sheer fun of it; after this, watch and re-watch it for the performance/entertainment side of it! Note how each trick is not a trick. Denny makes each effect something soooooo MUCH, much MORE. http://www.dennymagic.com P.S. Tell Denny David & Lindy from MAGICTAINMENT said hello.
David Breth
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