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kregg
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Isn't the price of gas cheaper in the US than in other countries? Don't excise taxes cost us more than actual corporate profits on gas?
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kregg
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I'm sure that some of you have used e-bay, Martinka, or similar auction sites. The commodities markets are much like an auction. The reserve price, once met, can go as high as those willing to bid higher.

As the population expands and more capital markets emerge, so too will costs. Another major contributor is our energy dependence; we now import not just oil, but refined gasoline. Consider buying a hybrid and consolidating your trips.

Take a look at your next heating/electric bill. Unless you have solar panels or are grinding away on a stationary bike to generate electricity you're paying more there as well.
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landmark
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MagicSanta wrote:

<<First off hold the oil executives to the same standards as most public companies. They are not allowed to make comments or release information that leads to an increase or decrease in the value of stock for one. I'm tired of hearing "we are not profiteering or taking advantage of 'what if' situations to increase our value" when that is exactly what they are doing.>>


Wow, I think hell just froze over. The first time I have agreed with (at least a part of) a politically oriented post of MagicSanta's.

Jack Shalom
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2008-03-07 16:57, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-03-07 16:22, Dannydoyle wrote:

Name for me the last thing the US Government got involved in that became cheaper, and easier to access please. That ALONE should want everyone to keep the government out of health care.



Education. NOW let's talk about quality...

Bingo.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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Quote:



Why exactly should everyone be entitled to health care?


Name for me the last thing the US Government got involved in that became cheaper, and easier to access please. That ALONE should want everyone to keep the government out of health care.
[/quote]


Why are you jumping on 'health care' instead of any of the other items on the original list? I was just pointing out that basic health care is a commodity that is for the public good just like 'water, electricity, oil or gas for heat, and fuel'. Practically everyone needs it, at some time or another.
[/quote]


Probably because (I'm just speculating here) nobody ever suggests that the Government should provide free (sic) water, electricity, oil, gas, or other fuel, but people DO make that suggestion about health care.
[/quote]

To clear up speculation yep again. People make this claim, and then want to back away from it.

The word "entitled" is what is odd. We are not an "entitlement" society and this is part of what we need to change.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
ed rhodes
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You want to bring down the price of gas? Everybody in the country who is capable of it should take one month and use the bus (subway?) instead of their cars. (Or walk/use a bike if possible.)

Inconvenient? Probably, but think about the massive drop in gas usage over that month and the resulting frenzy in the oil companies and OPEC.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
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"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
kregg
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We are dependent on refinement capabilities, rather the lack of them. We've been trumped by our lofty standards, no one wants a refinery in their backyard, yet we lust premium unleaded at a minimum. Those who bark loudest never complain about the cost of "organic" food or Starbuck's $54 per gallon coffee.
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evolve629
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I agree that I need to take a month to not drive my car. However, what's the opportunity cost associated with this?
One hundred percent of the shots you don't take don't go in - Wayne Gretzky
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balducci
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Quote:
On 2008-03-08 16:44, evolve629 wrote:
I agree that I need to take a month to not drive my car. However, what's the opportunity cost associated with this?

You have to figure that out for yourself. The opportunity cost may be very expensive, or it may be next to nothing. Depends where you live, what your alternatives are, etc.

I can tell you that it's easier to do without a car if you plan for it in advance. Particularly if you take it into account when you decide on things like where to live and work, etc.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Dannydoyle
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On 2008-03-08 11:19, mandrake01 wrote:
You want to bring down the price of gas? Everybody in the country who is capable of it should take one month and use the bus (subway?) instead of their cars. (Or walk/use a bike if possible.)

Inconvenient? Probably, but think about the massive drop in gas usage over that month and the resulting frenzy in the oil companies and OPEC.


Really, you think this is going to help?

We pay more for a gallon of water than we pay for a gallon of gas. Yet new "Natural Spring" water companies show up all the time.

What if we built more plants to refine product? We havn't built one in 30 years! Would that help some? You betcha. Why can't we build them? Is it the companies that don't want to build them? I doubt it.

Walk subway or bike huh? Not so easy in Northern Illinios in the winter is it? How about heating oil we just don't use it right?

I am all for alternative solutions, but nobody has yet to come up with one that does not require me to change my lifestyle.

If you can't afford to drive, don't. It is simple. You are not "entitled" to drive. You are not entitled to affordable gas. Heck with that theory why are we not all driving a Ferarri?

If you can't afford it don't buy it like any other product. It will be sorted out by the market.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
balducci
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Quote:
On 2008-03-08 11:04, Dannydoyle wrote:

The word "entitled" is what is odd. We are not an "entitlement" society and this is part of what we need to change.

Your earlier post with the multiple quotes was a little garbled, so I'm not sure exactly what you were referring to even though you were quoting from some of my earlier post.

I would just note that I never used the word "entitlement" in any of my earlier posts in this thread.

However, you and I both live in a society in which we ARE entitled, by law, to various rights (e.g., freedom of speech, the right to own property, etc.).

So when you say we are not an "entitlement" society, I do not really know exactly what you mean considering that we clearly DO live in an "entitlement" society when it comes to at least some rights.

Are we entitled to every little thing we desire? Of course not. But there are some basic rights and services to which we as members of our respective societies are entitled, and I guess the debate people have is what these lists of rights should include. Some people and societies include guaranteed access to basic health care in that list of rights, some do not.

Back to oil, it does seem that many people feel that they are entitled to cheap oil. I'm not one of those people, but clearly they do exist. Like you just said, let the market sort it out.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Dannydoyle
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The rights you speak of come from one place. Show me any mention of health care in our founding documents.

You seem to confuse rights with privelages. A common mistake.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
balducci
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Quote:
On 2008-03-08 17:24, Dannydoyle wrote:
The rights you speak of come from one place. Show me any mention of health care in our founding documents.

You seem to confuse rights with privelages. A common mistake.

I'm not confusing rights with privileges.

But you appear to be confusing my comments regarding rights of individuals in societies in general with the particular case of certain rights individuals have in American society. I was NOT talking specifically about American society, nor were the examples I gave (free speech, the right to own property) specifically American. I was talking about society in general, and the examples of rights I gave are common to many different societies around the world.

In general, rights may come from several sources: constitutional documents, legal decisions, common law, tradition, etc. Rights differ from society to society. Specifically, with respect to guaranteed access to health care.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Steve_Mollett
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Are there no prisons?!?
Are there no work houses?!?
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MagicSanta
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Stone, sorry for the lack of paragraphs. I'm on the road and transfered from a word processor to the Café and the durn thing lost form I thought I had it in.

Jack, I think you'll find I'm a left winger. I'm against the death penalty, for prison reform, I think the poor are treated unfairly by the courts. I think all people should have access to the highest level of medical treatment, wealth shouldn't determine if you live or die. I don't think they should be allowed to cut off electricity to those who cannot pay the bills, or water, or local telephone access for emergencies etc.. When I was working and had a way to use public transportation I did, my wife wouldn't consider it but I have no problems with a safe and usable system and because I want one I use it, my father, a guy worth a lot of money, also takes the trolly when he can.

On the other hand like the movie said, and I don't recall which one, I don't like having someing pee on my boots and tell me its raining. In this case, and for the years, the oil companies have lied and misrepresented the truth and stuck it to the consumer and will do so because people need to get to work. They don't care if they screw up the economy and it is doing so. I look at the big picture. People can't afford to pay for gas to visit a resort city, let's say Reno. The resorts and casinos have a drop off in business, the reduce the staff and do not buy new slots etc.. IGT and Bally's, guys like that, stop selling machines, they reduce their head count so more people are on the street. IGT and Bally's stop using EE Technology who makes the boards and other components for them, they lay off people and stop buying the IC's and transistors etc they need to do their job. Texas Instruments and Motorola then lay off people and reduce their builds which means less work and no need or a reluctance to purchase new test equipment. LTS lays off people. It goes on and on.

I lost my job because of California over regulation of everything (get ready for the fight gents, California now wants to certify the parents who home teach their kids, lots of freaks home teach, that should be fun). My total loss in pay and stock etc that I couldn't cash in is in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. It isn't good for anyone and thank goodness I had some money in the bank, which is now almost depleated, but others, most, are not so lucky. When I see the effect this is having and people who can't find jobs because they are too old, too qualified, or too anything or because there just are no jobs it really ticks me off to see someone say "I don't care, I'm not paying for gas and I invested in oil" which to me means everyone can kiss his #@#$. Nice. Then hoping the condition worsens, sickening. I've know people who lost good jobs and ended up homeless, it can happen, it does happen, and it could be YOU next.
MagicSanta
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Note that I have opened my home to people who needed a place to stay, I still have one in my little crappy new place (which when I get a new job will be destroyed and a new place built). So I am doing my part to help others. Oh, for extra brownie points he is gay....and balding, and ungrateful which really ticks me off.
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2008-03-08 20:18, MagicSanta wrote:
Stone, sorry for the lack of paragraphs. I'm on the road and transfered from a word processor to the Café and the durn thing lost form I thought I had it in.

Jack, I think you'll find I'm a left winger. I'm against the death penalty, for prison reform, I think the poor are treated unfairly by the courts. I think all people should have access to the highest level of medical treatment, wealth shouldn't determine if you live or die. I don't think they should be allowed to cut off electricity to those who cannot pay the bills, or water, or local telephone access for emergencies etc.. When I was working and had a way to use public transportation I did, my wife wouldn't consider it but I have no problems with a safe and usable system and because I want one I use it, my father, a guy worth a lot of money, also takes the trolly when he can.




I knew the coolness of being from Washington ran deeply in you Santa.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
LobowolfXXX
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FWIW, the American "Founding Fathers" position is not that people get rights FROM their governments, but rather that governments get rights from their people. The Constitution enumerates specific powers allocated TO various governmental agencies. Furthermore, at least some of those rights come from "their Creator."
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

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The Drake
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How'd we get from the price of bottled water to the US Constitution???

Only on the Café I tells ya!

Best,

Tim

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What is WWIW?
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