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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2885 Posts |
The oil companies may only be making .10 a gallon "profit," but let's not forget those huge salaries and stock incentives don't come from "profit," they are considered "expenses" and are figured in _before_ profit is calculated.
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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EsnRedshirt Special user Newark, CA 895 Posts |
MagicSanta- your poor mileage on California gas is most likely due to all the additives we put in (for "environmental reasons".) And heck, I rarely buy gas in Newark myself- the price is too high here.
Our city gets a good deal of its funding from property taxes, same as most cities- that's one reason why Vallejo's on the edge of bankruptcy, there's been too many foreclosures in the area. Balducci- oil companies will need to start regulating themselves and cutting back eventually, anyway- we're running out of cheap oil. (And you guys think it's bad now...) The smart companies will diversify into renewable energy sources before this happens. The not-so-smart companies, well- they'll keep pushing oil until there's none left, and then they'll die. I only hope that the rest of us have been mostly weaned off of oil when it happens, or we're in for a lot of trouble. -Erik (day 10)
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.
* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt. |
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Josh Riel Inner circle of hell 1995 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-03-07 15:59, Dannydoyle wrote: I must assume this was in reference to my post.... I don't come here too often, so sorry I'm late. No, I don't think any of the companies pay nearly as much as they should, but my statement about taxes were the taxes at the pump. The ones we directly pay per gallon. Taxation is in a terrible shape. I would never complain about 50% of my check going to taxes.... If I got something out of it (IE: Roads, Schools that taught my kids reading and math not unnecessary garbage (Not directly to teachers in any way), police who enforce the laws not the emotion of the month, etc.). Our government is heading down a bad way, regardless of your political ideology (Not blaming Bush here). But we are the ones in power, we just choose to do nothing relevant as a group.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
The country will be in better shape when more of us actually read our Constitution, learn about states rights and federalism. Oh and figure out who exactly is in charge! Your right Josh.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-03-10 12:28, Dannydoyle wrote: "States Rights and Federalism" suffered a declining enrollment when I was in law school year...I think to generate interest, they renamed it "American Mythology." (ok, that part of the post was a joke) Actually, during my Constitutional Law class, we watched videos of the Arkansas school integration riots, with my professor narrating as follows: "See, this is what happens when states have rights." I had a Con Law professor who hated the Constitution, a torts professor who hated the torts system (and believed in a strict liability model for everything -- if you got drunk and dove into a 3-foot above ground pool, and got paralyzed, the pool manufacturer should pay for your bills. I'm not making this up). Fortunately, I didn't get a property professor who didn't believe in private property rights, but I did have classmates who professed not to. The funny part was when one of them was complaining about getting his truck stolen. I didn't give him crap, but I was sorely tempted to. ("What do you mean YOUR truck? Maybe the person who took it needed it more than you...")
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
The oil companies only make $0.10 a gallon? Yes and the Soviet Union entered Aghanistan in 79 at their request. Let me see, the price goes up and people decide "hey, look at the price of gas, it is up again, you know, this would be a great time to take the RV cross country, right in the middle of Winter" and that results in the sale of millions and millions of more gallons of gas so that the profits of the oil companies increase by a billion dollars in a quarter. Bull $@(# , who would fall for that line of garbage?
Vallejo is another story, I saw that they said that by not giving the fire fighters a raise for the next four months they will save six million dollars. Six million dollars in raises were going out to Vallejo Fire Fighters? I went through Vallejo yesterday on the way home and didn't see huge numbers of fire fighters in caddies.... Gangsters, I worked for big corporations and they are great for giving jobs to people but they will lie through their teeth and use math so fuzzy it looks like carpeting. My favorite is they sit down and say "Okay, next quarter, and I know this is aggressive, we will go for an addition $90 million in sales". Okay, they only increase sales by $85 million but rather than saying "we increased sales by $85 million and will give bonuses to the employees to worked so hard without an head count increase to recongize their efforts!" they say "We had a $5 million dollar loss and as a result we will have to cut the workers pay by 5%". I'm not kidding. My former employer announced lay offs the same day as they announced record profits. I've had directors tell employee meetings, I'm not kidding here, that the company had not only not been sold but was not even up for sale and that morning the signs outside had already been changed to the new company! This happened in 1989 and it was a good sale because that director was laid off a few days later but that is how stupid these guys think you and their employees are. |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
At least the oil companies admit to making money on the oil they sell ... although they would probably like to adopt the accounting model used by the movie industry if they could only get away with it.
Anyway, we should keep in mind that all oil companies are not necessarily oil refining companies. Depending on the mix of their business, some oil companies will be much more profitable than others. As for profits in gasoline, this chart from the California Energy Commission (assuming it can be trusted) breaks the figures down using very recent price data: http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/margins/index.html It says that 38 to 48 cents per gallon in total goes towards distribution costs, marketing costs, refinery costs, and profits. The actual amount oil companies make on the oil itself would vary a lot based on the nature of the oil company. Saudi oil companies and oil companies in Texas probably make a ton of cash per barrel profit as their cost of production is so low. It would be a different story for some oil sands companies, where the cost of production is much higher. Still, even they are making money hand over fist at the moment, with prices where they are. (Day 10)
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
And can someone please explain to me why making money is such a horrid thing again? I got a bit lost with all the preaching.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-03-10 15:22, Dannydoyle wrote: Actually, so far as oil companies go, the economy in my neck of the woods is greatly dependent on oil companies making money. If oil drops below $80 or so for any length of time this year, I see tons of layoffs and house foreclosures coming in this part of the country. I would hate to see that level of suffering. (Day 10)
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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EsnRedshirt Special user Newark, CA 895 Posts |
Dannydoyle, making money isn't bad... but I don't think it should be put ahead of environmental and social responsibility- and ethics. Besides, it makes good sense in the long-term to take care of your customer base so they can keep being your customer base.
I think in some ways we've slipped away from a truely "free" market to one that favors large corporations. For example, a small slaughterhouse starts advertising its beef as "every cow tested and found free of 'mad cow'." In a true "free" market, they sell their product to customers who want this reassurance, thus taking some market share from the large conglomerate slaughterhouse. The large company has the option to eat the loss of the niche (noting that their product is just as safe and cheaper), or start testing all their cows as well. Or buy the small slaughterhouse and release a line of beef that's "certified organic and tested for 'mad cow'." In the US today, they've got a third option- lobby the government, claiming that testing all their livestock would be uneconomical, and the government should make it illegal to label any beef as 'certified mad-cow disease free'." Which is exactly what happened a while back. How's that a free market? -Erik (day 10)
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.
* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt. |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
Making money is fine, I'd love to make money again. The problem comes when an industry is lying through their teeth and dragging down an entire economy for their own gold. I don't believe for a second, and neither should anyone who knows business, that the oil companies are paying the market price for oil. They make massive purchases at a given price and that means they are not making a solid profit based on the purchase price they are making a monster profit off of the perceived cost. You'll see the oil companies rarely comment, if ever, on the market value because they don't want that topic addressed with them. My old company saw a shortage of silicon wafers so they made a huge purchase for deliveries over a 14 month period. My company was betting the price would go up and the availability would go down and they could then claim it as a great deal and increase prices based on amounts non existant. The seller, in this case Monsanto out of St. Louis, hedged that the availability would increase and the price stay the same or go lower that way their profit margin increases.
I'll tell you what. If a major paper put out a headline that said "Price Per Oil To Raise On Alien Abduction Fears" and the article under it be about how Girl Scouts are selling cookies outside of grocery stores (they are by the way, support 'em) the price at the pump would go up. I do have to say I understand Lobowolfs view since he now is a member of a field who has been sticking it to people and working at destroying industries and individuals for personal gain for decades and decades. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-03-10 16:10, MagicSanta wrote: I do believe that it's a bit of a misnomer to think of "the legal field" as if it were one thing. There exists a wide variety of practice attorneys in which attorneys work, and there are almost as many differences between some of them as there are similarities. It's arguable what constitutes a "fair" price, since different people bring their own values to the table in considering such a question. I will say that, in Southern California at least, there is a very big market for legal services. As a result, consumers have many choices, and it's probably (at least by some reasonable definitions of the word "fair") an industry in which a client is much more likely to get a "fair" price than, say, a consumer in the market for computers, or for any individual component of computers. Attorneys have more competitors; there's nothing resembling an oligopoly, and if legal fees are too high, or the quality is not up to standard, it's very easy to fire and replace your attorney. Furthermore, in my practice area at least, we rely heavily on repeat business, another factor which generally leads to better customer service. Pricing is generally mathematical in nature, aimed at maximizing profits and based on elasticity of price -- what's the "sweet spot" where if we charged more, we'd lose customers, and if we charged less, we'd leave money on the table? Santa - If you worked in a private industry that priced its products and/or services based on other criteria, or one that didn't attempt to maximize profits, I'd love to hear what it was.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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evolve629 Inner circle A stack of 3838 Posts |
Okay, on last Friday, March 7, 2008: NYMEX West Texas Intermediate for April delivery at $105.15 per barrel. This in comparison to 1982 where a barrel of crude oil was $69.33 and 1986 at $27.66 (both inflation adjusted 2007). 1994 seemed to be the lowest, at $22.19 and a surprise low in 1998 at $15.35 of crude oil per barrel.
I think the picture is quite clear, isn't it?
One hundred percent of the shots you don't take don't go in - Wayne Gretzky
My favorite part is putting the gaffs in the spectators hands...it gives you that warm fuzzy feeling inside! - Bob Kohler |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-03-10 17:22, evolve629 wrote: Ummm...not really. The price of oil has increased by 50% more than other goods and services over the last 26 years? That seems to make sense to me...a lot of people use it, and they're generally not willing or able, at least where I live, to use substitutes goods, so I'd expect the price of oil to increase more than, say, the price of shrimp (which is also selling for more than it did 26 years ago). If shrimp is too expensive, people eat burgers. If gas is "too expensive," people generally pay more for it and complain. Other things have outpaced inflation (depending on where one lives, of course), for instance, the price of housing in Los Angeles County, where I'm from. Still waiting for someone to complain that his house is up 50% over the last 26 years, adjusted for inflation. I guess it's a good thing when it's something you own, and a bad thing when it's something someone else owns.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Josh Riel Inner circle of hell 1995 Posts |
This is regarding the $0.10 that is coming up.
For the record, stores such as 7-11, the gas station down the street, whatever, are only making a margin of $0.10 per gallon. Some will make more, some less. Now the Shell station (Just for an example, I don't know if this is how Shell does it) will only mark the fuel up a relatively low amount, however the Shell Group who owns the Shell name will have it's mark-up as well for the fuel it sells. I do not know about Shell, but many of the gas stations who have a "name", are paying for the name, but are really an independent. The only thing is they get the gas from the "Name". So in most cases, don't hate the pump. The oil companies recording record profits are probably making a bit more than .10 a gallon, but from an inside view you can make the numbers look any way you choose. And of course the oil companies are not the only factor in the cost of fuel.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-03-10 15:22, Dannydoyle wrote: Not horrid. Read the title of the thread. Jack Shalom
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Algebra2 Regular user CA 156 Posts |
Check out Ron Paul he is the little known presidential candidate and the only one telling the truth. I would suggest reading the book Crash Proof by Peter Schiff. We are in for some bad times so get out there and get educated about economics and prepare for what many people think is going to be a deep long recession.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Why have your last posts always been to push a failed candidate for president? We get it you are a Ron Paul supporter, one of 1250 in the nation. Ok no need to keep telling us.
And by the way, many a credible economist says the recession that may or may not come will be short lived. That is a point most agree on. Well except for the greatest never elected to president since Ralph Nader, Ron Paul. Short term corections happen. It is a cycle.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
Well, I'm done....I have no problem with beer costing $50 a six pack if that is what they want to charge. I've no issue if they want you to pay $500.00 a month for cable movies. I do not think that electricity, gas (heating oil and as a fuel), water to households (excluding bottles of water), and milk (ice cream excluded for example) are in a different catagory and that is or should be understood by those who provide those commodities. Seems some here think all things should be free marketed and if some people, and I'm not included in some people, cannot afford it the screw them. Heat, light, milk for children, and fuel to get to work (because public transportation isn't always available) can't afford it then it must be because they are ignorant and lazy and don't deserve such things. Just think how much less traffic there would be if we could price fuel to the point that more and more people can't get to work! It would be wonderful, and then we can let the insurance industry pump up the cost and require that to drive (which I agree with having it) until only the truly wealthy will have accesss to the roads and all that stuff that should only be available to those who can afford it....like that heat stuff.
Oh, we also have at least two people who think all pricing should be based on what is paid in London....god knows why. So I've made my point and the greed mongers have made theirs. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I know how baby food can be affordable.
DON'T HAVE KIDS TILL YOU CAN AFFORD FOOD. Pretty simple really. Why should people who have cable TV or a dish or rent movies or go to the bar, get things subsidised? Let them cut out that stuff, then we can talk.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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