The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Psychics and Mentalists (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5 [Next]
mindpunisher
View Profile
Inner circle
6132 Posts

Profile of mindpunisher
A mentalist is a psychic to the public if they use tarot cards or other reading systems do or feats that imply they have ESP. Even if they use a disclaimer.

This isn't about what a psychic is to you. Its about what a psychic is to your public.

Focus on them instead of yourselves.
Steve_Mollett
View Profile
Inner circle
Eh, so I've made
3010 Posts

Profile of Steve_Mollett
There is an irony that many laymen, not schooled in the subtleties of magic lingo, see the terms 'psychic' and 'mentalist' as pretty much meaning the same thing.

On a tangent, one magical writer observed that the most 'honest' mystery performer, as claims go, is probably the escape artist; he claims he will get out of something...and does.
Smile Smile
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
entity
View Profile
Inner circle
Canada
5060 Posts

Profile of entity
Quote:
On 2008-03-09 05:37, psychicturtle wrote:
I see a psychic as someone who can perform genuine feats of telepathy and or clairvoyance. I'm a psychological illusionist, as I create illusions that are experienced more psychologically than anything else.

I have no idea (and have never known) what the word 'mentalist' means (aside from it's current common definition, which is 'lunatic'), so I would never apply it to myself. I always thought it to be a 'nothing' word, in that it does not say anything at all, aside from having something to do with the mind. Technically, psychic just means 'of the mind' as well. Over here (UK) to the public, 'mentalist' only means 'lunatic'. So I never use the term.


My question, for the purposes of this discussion, asks how those of us in the trade view the terms "mentalist" and "psychic". I understand that there are some outside of the trade that don't recognize the word "mentalist", as it pertains to the performance of mentalism.

- entity
Samuel Catoe
View Profile
Inner circle
South Carolina
1256 Posts

Profile of Samuel Catoe
This is an interesting question you pose.

I think that for me the distinction would not be regarding methodology but presentation toward the public. For instance, Banachek would be a mentalist while John Edwards would be classified as a psychic.

A mentalist does not need to give a disclaimer during their performance. They perform a show as opposed to giving readings. I really think there is a very fine line between the two and that many performers do blur those lines if not erase them all together. Mentalists rarely refer to themselves as such and often will call themselves thought readers, psychological illusionists, experimentalists, etc.

A psychic is giving readings. A performer CAN give reading like palm readings without being labeled a psychic, but when you start telling people their futures and giving readings on a regular basis you cross the line and are now a psychic to the public. Readings can be anything from tarot to numerology to talking with the dead. Psychics have referred to themselves as psychics, readers, and even facilitators.

That is how I would separate the two.
Author of Illusions of Influence, a treatise on Equivoque.
PM me for details and availability.
kinesis
View Profile
Inner circle
Scotland, surrounded by
2701 Posts

Profile of kinesis
To be honest I don't think the UK public are (were ever) familiar with the word 'mentalist' relating to a performer (of the paranormal et al). That's one reason I've deliberated heavily on what to put on my business cards. I had a great chat with Todd Landman about this at Blackpool, LOL
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein






FACEBOOK
Sealegs
View Profile
Inner circle
The UK, Portsmouth
2573 Posts

Profile of Sealegs
I guess I'd see a Psychic as someone who represents themselves (either theatrically or otherwise) as having a quality that is part of them in the way that, say left or righthandedness is a quality that is a part of someone even when they're not using their hands.

Whereas I'd think of a Mentalist as someone who doesn't represent themselves as having a mysterious built in quality. Rather they tap into a certain (possibly mysterious) something when they need to.

Seems pretty much like a 'splitting-hairs' kind of a difference though and can't see what's achieved or gained by making such a distinction.

Neal
Neal Austin

"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw
IAIN
View Profile
Eternal Order
england
18820 Posts

Profile of IAIN
Do you know what I think part of the problem with all this is?

That a lot of the classics, the textbooks/must-reads however you describe them - play heavily upon the psychic dressings...

I was reading Robert Nelson's encyclopedia of mentalism the other day, this quote:
"the belief that one might learn something of the tomorrows is not a superstition, but the result of hopeful thinking. Certainly with logic and reasoning, plus given factors - a future course can be charted with some degree of accuracy"

and

"in the world of entertainment, the presentation of psychic entertainment is always in demand. because of its challenge, it not only entertains, but draws people thru curiosity and their desire for further entertainment on their own personal problems."

So you can forgive a mentalist for holding true to this in some respects, as, if you're often quoted these books to learn from - well, you take what's written as gospel to a certain extent surely...

looking back, through the 60s and 70s, a lot of heavy spiritual self awareness happened -it was reflected in the books, the gurus that popped up, even in music and film...

I'm not sure what happened to mentalism in the 80s...apart from wide shoulderpads and mullets....

Then the 90s it became a little hybrid in nature, mixed in with magic and the arrival of Blaine...who in his first specials, hinted at ancient fakirs with reviving dead birds and flies, coins and card magic, mind reading...a heady mix...

and its only been recent times, say the past decade, or so, that the psychological mix of things has gained more and more popularity...it does seem genuinely fascinating to read someone's character, if it can be done well, and if it can be talked about knowledgeable...

So in summing up m'lud - its no wonder some of us get confused as to what works and fits our character, our displayable skill sets, I bet a few psychologically based people do book tests with no thought of the "how and why"; just as some psychic entertainers use suggestion, rather than influence..

It's easier to follow, than lead...
NEW - the bear tear

20-25% OFF MOST THINGS
http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/uncle90
entity
View Profile
Inner circle
Canada
5060 Posts

Profile of entity
Chan Canasta was doing his brand of "Psycho-Magic" several decades ago.

It's interesting to note the way that mentalists have perceived themselves in past eons. Equally interesting is how modern mentalists and psychics see themselves in current day terms.

Mentalism seems to be evolving and changing to adapt to more modern times.

Have psychics changed much over the years?

- entity
IAIN
View Profile
Eternal Order
england
18820 Posts

Profile of IAIN
Chan was unique at the time, and one of my all time favourites - but strangely shunned by both magicians and mentalists for the main at the time...

Have psychics changed much? I think they have via the TV - they make much more money...and are safe with their bulletproof caveat of "for entertainment only" at the end of each show. We shall talk of your dead aunt for entertainment!

Look at Mr. Berglas, hypnotism, cigarette act, predictions - yet you get told you can't mix magic and mentalism...
NEW - the bear tear

20-25% OFF MOST THINGS
http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/uncle90
entity
View Profile
Inner circle
Canada
5060 Posts

Profile of entity
Canasta is the one that led me to the context for my performance as a Mentalist.

Re: Berglas:
What the public will accept comes down to the performer, more than what he performs, I think. If they like you, you can get away with a lot. People found Berglas fascinating, a gentleman, and a great showman. They liked him.

When I asked if psychics had evolved, I was speaking more in terms of how they portray themselves than the technology used to convey their message.

- entity
IAIN
View Profile
Eternal Order
england
18820 Posts

Profile of IAIN
"Real" psychics? I don't think they have from what I've seen...maybe the way they show the audience how they communicate with the spirits, maybe that's changed - but overall...in my experience, not much...

Though going back to TV, I've noticed their delivery can sound very similar to one another...if you look at how Derek Akorah and Colin Fry communicate their messages....which to me suggests they're method isn't has honest as they would like you to believe....

The only personal story I can share here is from my mum's side of the family - I think it would of been my great aunt, would just rattle off stuff - no fishing as we'd label it - if it was wrong, she accepted it completely...but apparently she wasn't wrong often...
NEW - the bear tear

20-25% OFF MOST THINGS
http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/uncle90
entity
View Profile
Inner circle
Canada
5060 Posts

Profile of entity
Today your great aunt might have had her own televison show.

- entity
IAIN
View Profile
Eternal Order
england
18820 Posts

Profile of IAIN
Doubt it...she never took money for what she did apparently...

funny image though, to see a short dumpy old eastender drinking lots of tea and shortcake biscuits...i don't think she would of suffered fools gladly...and I hear theres a few of them in tv-land...
NEW - the bear tear

20-25% OFF MOST THINGS
http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/uncle90
entity
View Profile
Inner circle
Canada
5060 Posts

Profile of entity
Brings Doris Stoakes to mind.

- entity
Esjay Dee
View Profile
Loyal user
Halls of residence
267 Posts

Profile of Esjay Dee
Stereotypes have changed. The assumption that any person who has psychic ability will therefore contact the dead is plain wrong. Although it is true that many people who wish to present themselves in this way do seem to get the limelight.

In the 16/17th century healers (or cunning folk) would give the sick a peice of paper with prayers written on it to wear around their neck. They were also often given a talisman, the healer would also 'lay on hands'.

During this period King Charles the first did the exact same thing with the help of the church in an organised and very popular ceremony. This practice continued up until the Tudor and Stuart period.

Guess who got accused of whitchcraft?!

The waqys of the cunning men and women of 16/17th C England were outside of the 'system' and therefore seen as dangerous.

I believe it is a mistake to assume that people can be difined by the label of psychic, and rather, this 'ability' should be seen as a trait or characteristic. I also feel that man(kind) adjusts to the flavour of the time and behaves and presents themselves accordingly.
.

steve
entity
View Profile
Inner circle
Canada
5060 Posts

Profile of entity
Steve: I asked how people here on this mentalism forum delineated between mentalists and psychics. In order to delineate, some sort of definition helps.

Yes, mankind adjusts to the flavour of the time and presents themselves accordingly. I wondered if and how psychics had evolved in defining themselves for the public, in modern times.

- entity
Esjay Dee
View Profile
Loyal user
Halls of residence
267 Posts

Profile of Esjay Dee
I suppose I would say that a mentalist provides the illusion of psychic ability, and the psychic shows the reality of psychic ability. Although as you suggest, there are several sub catagories of psychic ability, and it's also true that some mentalists use the bogus rationalle of psychology.

Maybe the difference between psychic and mentalist performances is that one is sung and the other mimed?

steve.
entity
View Profile
Inner circle
Canada
5060 Posts

Profile of entity
Which is the singer, and which the mime?

- entity
IAIN
View Profile
Eternal Order
england
18820 Posts

Profile of IAIN
Would you not use a psychological theme for all of your performances? what other themes do you use?

I suppose on the singer/mime thing, it just boils down to individual beliefs..
NEW - the bear tear

20-25% OFF MOST THINGS
http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/uncle90
entity
View Profile
Inner circle
Canada
5060 Posts

Profile of entity
There are times when the use of psychology is not a bogus explanation for an effect.

- entity
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Psychics and Mentalists (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.19 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL