So, I'm going through some old issues of Genii last night and I come across a full page response from a known magician who was accused by a big publisher of not giving proper credit in his effects. In his defense he stated that he didn't realize that the effect in question belonged to one person and that he assumed it was a standard trick. Which brings up a question for me.

How do we give credit reasonably? Take the coins across routine for example. It is a standard plot in coin magic. So if I were to publish a new handling or twist on the effect I don't feel I need to credit sources all the way back to the original effect.

In todays age of sharing massive amounts of knowledge at high speed there is far too much out there for anyone to know every detail of every effect or move. Things will slip by. So back to my question. How do we give credit where it is due in a resonable manor?

What prompts this question is that I am going to release some of my effects. Through years of doing magic I find that other magicians have come up with similar effects to mine here and there. But they were in no way involved in me creating my magic and in all cases I had my routine in use before I even ran across theirs.

Just giving food for thought and hoping to get further insight on how to structure credit.

Kex

If you really have something novel to offer - those who know the history of what's been done will likely be happy to support your choice to publish. Peer review and vetting are a sign of respect for this craft. Choose your peers wisely.

Keep in mind that there is little merit in offering trendy rechaufes of classic plots using well known methods unless the specific combination of means produces something which will offer novel outcomes for audiences - outside of the script/presentation you offer. It's like asking that your child's school homework which got a good grade at school and put on the family refrigerator be published for all in this craft to admire. Everybody here is expected to do their homework - that's how we learn. Yes you can find four selections at the end of an ace assembly then show the other twelve cards have odd colored backs... but why not just publish the new amazing sleight you used which others might find their own uses for?

On the more positive side, scripts which you have good reason to believe would work well for others and be easily adapted to other character and contexts are usually welcome and a benefit to performers.

Doing research on the internet can help with what your information your looking for. How ever two or more minds can come up with the same idea weather its magic , inventions , and other things we see out there in the market.
I has a experience where I invented a string trimmer on wheels ,and then 10 years later a company over 500 miles away called D&R corp.invented & marketed a very simular device,actually was exactly like it. Well I snoozed I looze they say.
My buddy had a simular thing happen to him with a idea to.
looks like credit is given to the one that gets their creation,idea,or invention to the public/market first.
I have come up with some simple coin moves I havnt seen in anny magic books yet , once I think of them someone will have them in their book.

Thanks for your comments so far. Let me add that most of my effects are somewhat original (I hesitate to say completely original because again someone out there probably has something similar) and I rarely rehash existing plots. When I do visit existing plots I keep the effect as brief and to the point as I can. In other words I try to cut out all the unnecessary and get to the meat of the effect. Make it direct and visual. But again I rarely look at existing plots.

Just wondering if opening with a blanket statement to say I've done all the research I can but don't know everything. So if I missed credit somewhere I appologize. You think this is a good approach?

Curiously,
Kex

"I've done all the research I can but..."

is exactly why folks get their stuff vetted.

Till you know where you got all the pieces of the pictures you put together - it's kind of tough to claim originality and till you know what things are truly novel in our craft it's probably better not to claim discovery or novelty.

Really? you may be asking... YES. Have a look at the recent thread on the "progressive ace assembly" trick for some eye opening.

Well, I never claim that my stuff is truly original. I only claim that I came up with the working or the effect through hard work. Don't get me wrong. I agree that credit needs to be given where appropriate in the sake of magic's history. I just see some going way too far with it.

So what exactly makes something novel. I've seen things on the market that say original or new and I can trace it back 50 years or more. The two sided shell comes to mind. forgive me if my memory is not accurate but wasn't it Charlie Miller who used it for a monacle effect? Then in the 90's it was released as a new concept...

I don't know the history of everything, but I know who to ask to find most of the answers.

There are people who have been in the business for decades, who have seen ideas come and go.

A few weeks ago, a kid who is a member of the local SYM group showed me a completly original sponge ball vanish. He had thought it up himself. He asked what I thought of it.

I laughed and told him that I liked it when I invented it, too! I invented the same move when I was about 15 years old. I know he couldn't have learned it from me or from anyone I showed it to, because when I showed it to Cal Emmett, he told me what was wrong with it. So I didn't do it any more.

But I later learned that it was actually a variation on a coin vanish.

We have 10 fingers, unless we are members of the Boleyn family. Most of our sleights are going to be similar. The question is, are they going to be good?

Find old guys who know their onions and whom you can trust. Let them look at what you have. They will shoot straight with you.

What I really find hard to take is people who DON'T make an effort to find out what has gone on before.

Any recommendations on some of the 'old guys' as you call them? [g]

And trust me, I agree on making the effort to find out what has gone on before. I used to work in a magic shop with thousands of books. They were such a great refence. I just don't have access to all of that today. lol

Kex