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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » Walter Scott's second deal (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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silverking
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C.C. and h2o, I hear you both loud and clear. It's an interesting perspective on the value of something like a small brief in real world table situations.

With the standard left hand movement of a typical full table deal, a microscopic brief could be seen to not help a great deal, as all will be concealed by the motion of the left hand.

It's apparent too though, that the micro-brief will certainly continue to impress at the strike second demo.
As C.C. points out above, that desire to impress has resulted in some beautiful card work......easily appreciated for what it is even if you don't agree with what it does or how it does it Smile
Yiannis
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Silveking,

thank you very much!!

On the second deal now,

if you have to concentrate during a game on your second deal (or during a magic trick presentation), it means that your muscle memory is not developed enough to facilitate flawless execution. It doesn't matter what type of second deal you are employing, whether is Walter Scott's type or a "regular" strike second.

You know that you have mastered a physical or mental activity, when you don't have to think about the it while you are executing it. When the process become automated, your physiology will change, your muscles will relax and that is the moment when the movement becomes "natural" to you. And it will appear natural to others, because you do not strain will executing it.

The Walter Scott's second deal is a very difficult deal to learn, in my opinion the most difficult to master, BUT once your neurophysiology has adapted is as easy as any other type. When it becomes "natural" and you are comfortable dealing with only a tiny brief, you don't have to worry about missing a second or catching a hanger. Unless of course the dealing conditions are not favorable (sticky deck, very dry fingers, etc...). Even for those conditions there are ways around the problems, without changing your deal.

Which type of second deal is more deceptive during a game or a magic trick? It doesn't really matter, as long as the move gets the money (for gambling) or as long as it creates a nice illusion (for magic). My personal opinion is that you can make any second deal look deceptive and use it cleverly enough to get the money.
h2o
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Quote:
On 2008-03-18 15:15, Yiannis wrote:

You know that you have mastered a physical or mental activity, when you don't have to think about the it while you are executing it. When the process become automated, your physiology will change, your muscles will relax and that is the moment when the movement becomes "natural" to you. And it will appear natural to others, because you do not strain will executing it.


Yiannis I think you've made a really good and important point here. Recently I've been pointed out about the importance of breathing while practicing. Especially while riffle stacking, but I guess that can be extended to any kind of moves. You have to feel completely relaxed, without any tension to make the move smoother and natural.
When describing a move, books or dvds all tend to focus on detailing the intrinsic mechanics but few will give you advices on the importance of a correct "mental state" and breathing. And that greatly helps making the transition from the "bedroom practice" to the stressful real life conditions time.
tommy
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When dealing Ghostly seconds I take advantage of reflexes:

My thumb does not move by itself, it is moved, by the other thumb that crosses it.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
LOUIEL
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Good work Yiannis, very smooth and beautiful.

LOUIE/L
Yiannis
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Thanx Louie!
Mr. Z
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Quote:
On 2008-03-18 16:03, h2o wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-03-18 15:15, Yiannis wrote:

You know that you have mastered a physical or mental activity, when you don't have to think about the it while you are executing it. When the process become automated, your physiology will change, your muscles will relax and that is the moment when the movement becomes "natural" to you. And it will appear natural to others, because you do not strain will executing it.


Yiannis I think you've made a really good and important point here. Recently I've been pointed out about the importance of breathing while practicing. Especially while riffle stacking, but I guess that can be extended to any kind of moves. You have to feel completely relaxed, without any tension to make the move smoother and natural.
When describing a move, books or dvds all tend to focus on detailing the intrinsic mechanics but few will give you advices on the importance of a correct "mental state" and breathing. And that greatly helps making the transition from the "bedroom practice" to the stressful real life conditions time.


So you mean it's a bad idea to hold your breath for 10 minutes or more when shuffling?
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
stoneunhinged
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Quote:

So you mean it's a bad idea to hold your breath for 10 minutes or more when shuffling?


Not when you're doing it under water.
Yiannis
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I would recommend KEM cards for under water activity.
h2o
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Lol
I mean to help you relax, try to breath out at the critical moments. For example with a riffle stacking shuffle, if you breath out when you're riffling to hold the cards, you get a smoother action. Don't you feel that when you're breating in, you're more tense?
Guess you've never paid attention to that, huh?
Mr. Z
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Physical tension isn't necessarily a bad thing. Letting out a good fart is a great turn for ringing in a cooler.
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
h2o
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That's a pretty good idea. You should suggest it to Steve Forte for his next book on poker cheating protection tips: "Be suspicious of any player who farts".
Yiannis
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H2O,

breathing is a key to relaxation. Regulating your breathing greatly enhances the learning process of any physical activity. Specifically to cards, when you are learning a new skill (e.g a false deal) the shoulder muscles particularly have the tendency to tense up. (A nice demonstration of relaxed riffle stacking can be seen in the work of Mr. Z).

By calming your breathing and paying attention to the muscle group that is tensed (in order to make it relax), you can decrease your learning curve. And most importantly, you teach your muscle to relax when learning a similar new activity.
Mr. Z
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Quote:
On 2008-03-18 18:24, h2o wrote:
That's a pretty good idea. You should suggest it to Steve Forte for his next book on poker cheating protection tips: "Be suspicious of any player who farts".


You know if my memory's correct I remember reading in Stephen Minch's biography of Eddie Fields that there were two brothers who hustled poker who'd fart every time they had to switch their hole card.

And not to derail the topic of the thread--very nice seconds Yiannis.
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
Yiannis
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Thank you Mr.Z!
h2o
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Thanks Yiannis for your clarification about muscles relaxation.

Hey Mr Z, that's what I like about your posts, there's always a sense of wise and reality even in the most screwball ones! lol
magician8
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Quote:
On 2008-03-18 12:35, silverking wrote:

The obvious visual element of the Scott second is the "still thumb" on the left hand. In the context of the Scott strike second deal, this "still thumb" helps to create the illusion of a fair deal.




I always thought the Scott deal was used with a sort of moveable thumb,



8
tommy
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You can move the thumb over the card to create the illusion that card is being moved if you like, add little touches so to speak. No one is stopping you doing whatever you like. Just master the the standard thing first to give yourself a firm foundation and after you can play around and around with it to see what you like. This Scott deal does not suit everyone since a dry thumb is a drawback. Some prefer a big brief and use another sort of second. There are many methods but I like this one, its close to the one I use which is the Ghostly second.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
magician8
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I use the Scott deal but with a slightly different method, more like marlo's no touch theory,


8
tommy
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Well if you do that from the Master Grip (Scotts Grip) there is not much differnt than Scott Second deal except for the thumb posistion. In marlo's no touch theory the thumb position stops one touching the top card on the take. Which is good and bad cos that thumb position is bad when it comes to dealing the top card as it gets in the way little. All things have good and bad points. One fix's one problem which in turn creates anther and on it goes. Which ever you choose there is a problem and you have live with it.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
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