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Geoffrey Durham New user 30 Posts |
Thank you, Donal. I hope you enjoy the book. The Chair Suspension material is just a small part of a general chapter on Harbin and my relationship with his wonderful magic.
I was interested in what Kyle says about getting the centre of gravity right. My view is more or less the opposite of his - in other words, I feel that the nearer the lady's neck the chair-back is, and the further from the shoulders, the better. It is ignoring her centre of gravity that makes the lady appear to float. Hence, of course, the need for a sturdily built prop...! |
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SpellbinderEntertainment Inner circle West Coast 3519 Posts |
Hi Geoffrey,
What you say is true of the more expensive/heavy models, which of course have their place when weight and budget allow, and are preferable for stage and Illusion Show work. With the under $500 models, which are under thirty-pounds total, having the person (child or small-adult) positioned properly is paramount to their safety! There are pros-and-cons, and gives-and-takes for both versions and options. The Sommers was chosen for safety reasons by McDonald’s nationwide over the others in the price-range/weight, however having the spectator’s rear-end directly over the seat of the supporting chair is crucial to their well being. Thanks for your thoughts, looking forward to your book! Magically, Walt |
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
Great discussion. Geoffrey, I also liked your comments and thoughts here and I thank you for chiming in as you have. I think we are closer to our thinking then we may initially have thought.
My main intention is to create the proper illusion for the chair suspension illusion. Too many magicians attempt to perform it with the head (and top of the head)completely and totally on the board and in some cases slightly away from the chair back. This only makes sense to some as they feel that it makes the person more comfortable. The only problem with this set up is that 1) the balance is all wrong causing undo stress on the apparatus and sag in the suspension and 2) it does not provide the proper look of the suspension taking place. I feel the suspension gets the best result and look when the neck area is closest to the top section of the chair edge. Yes this cuases the head to be off the board, but this provides the greatest of visual effect. The idea then becomes one of the appearance that the person is suspended by a point on their neck only. It also provides much better balance. Now with the Mak and Sommer's version, you almost have no choice but to really get the neck or shoulders as close to the chair edge as you can in order to keep safety at a paramount. With the Bill Smith model you certainly have a lot more flexibility as you can use an adult on it and it can handle the do stress. Just a few ideas and thoughts if nothing more. Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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David Tower Regular user David Tower 124 Posts |
I can see that most everyone feels that one of the great merits of the chair suspension is being able to use a volunteer from the audience. But, however I have been experimenting with something different. The cloth that is left around the volunteer to me detracts from the illusion. So I tried using my assistant rather than someone form the audience. Keep in mind that the sword suspension (which is very much like the chair suspension) and the broom suspension both use assistants rather than volunteers and they are very good illusions. In doing this I have matched the underside of the gimmick with the costume of my assistant. This allows me to remove the board and people can see underneath for a complete suspension with no suspicious cloth wrapped around the suspended person.
I am not looking to spark a debate on should or should we not use a volunteer over an assistant. I just thought this might spark some interest in those who are discussing this topic. David Tower
David Tower
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Don Loyal user 215 Posts |
My chair suspension is less than 20 pounds,yet will handle a assistant or volunteer 125 pounds without a doubt and is very sturdy. It was made by Bill Smith from the Harbin plans,it is different from what he makes today.
You really don't want a person too heavy they will be harder to adjust and will less likely have the leg strength needed on the lower end because of their weight. Using a volunteer or assistant(Different strokes for different folks) I see advantages and disadvantages for both. Don |
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Bradacal Special user 591 Posts |
Can anyone comment on this suspension....???Anyone own it or know of it...I am looking for a quick and easy suspension just really for three shows....what kind of angles am I looking at???
http://www.klamm-magic.com/cgi-bin/web_s......match=on Thanks, Michael |
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SpellbinderEntertainment Inner circle West Coast 3519 Posts |
-MB-
Please don't open up this huge topic again. I've just sent you an extensive and long PM all about Sommers Suspension, and there are also tons of threads and posts here on this topic. This thread is about the Chair Suspension so lets not muddy the water, by talking about every suspension under the sun, OK? Magically, Walt |
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John Bowlin Special user Maryland 827 Posts |
For the money, it doesn't get much better than the chair suspension. I'm also learning from experience how much more mileage I get out of effects that can be performed in the round(or close to it) as opposed to effects that are angle sensitive. Even when you think you know the angles of your performing venue a wrench gets thrown in now and then.
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
The Chair Suspension is a great illusion for the fact that it is indeed lower cost then most any illusion you can buy. You can literally pay it off with one gig easily. It can fit into the budget of most any magician and allow you as an entertainer to offer something special and different to the shows that you do.
I love the protability and easy travel aspect of the illusion as it makes it very easy to perform it and set it up most any where allowing me to offer this as an ending effect for a birthday party without a lot of hassle as well. I perform this also at festivals and fairs all the time and have learned a few ways in which I can perform the illusion in the round. It does not have that many angle problems and the few issues it does have you can get around easily with a little bit of proper routining and planning ahead of time. Also the fact that it does not relay on light or proper lighting allows me to perform it in most any condition. It is the one illusiion that always stays in my truck ready to go if and when I need it. It is an illusion that I can go to in most any staging condition I run into and know that I can probably make it work well. Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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reynold Elite user Puerto Rico 490 Posts |
David Tower: You got it!! Magicians are easily fooled with the audience applause. I have seen terrible acts or good acts with unfortunate situations like bad lighting or something breaking and exposes the whole illusion and the audience will still applaud even though they saw how the illusion works. The chair suspension will get applause, but I bet if you ask the audience one by one after show, every one will tell you exactly how it works. Any suspension were you have to wrap the spectator in a cloth does not fool anybody but the performer. David I loved your idea!
Thanks, Reynold |
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John Bowlin Special user Maryland 827 Posts |
Glad I'm not performing where you are, I have not had this experience at all. No I have never polled an entire audience but I have had plenty of them inquire about hypnosis afterwards. Maybe everyone where you are is just too "in the know".
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reynold Elite user Puerto Rico 490 Posts |
John: Maybe, I perform for the real world. And you are just lucky or you have a really strong and convincing presentation.
But anyways good luck. Thanks, Reynold |
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Donal Chayce Inner circle 1770 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-03-22 11:00, reynold wrote: Reynold, for whatever it's worth (and, as I said in a previous post, to me it's worth a lot), Robert Harbin would seriously disagree with you. In his seminal "Magic of Robert Harbin," both his Chair Suspension and his Walk Away Super X Suspension utilize wrapping the volunteer in a cloth. IMHO, the problem is not with using a cloth but with not coming up with a plausible reason for doing so. Harbin's reason was to insure that the female volunteer's sense of modesty remained intact. (Women primarily wore skirts and dresses when he was performing.) My routine revolves around a pseudo-hypnosis presentation, and my reason for using the "blanket" (that's what I call it), is because, as I explain it, the volunteer's pulse rate will slow down and her body temperature will drop, and I don't want her to feel uncomfortably cold. Admittedly, I'm still in the practice and rehearsal stages, and I've not yet performed the illusion in front of an audience, so I can't speak from experience. So for now I'm betting on the illusion creator's (Harbin's) experience with it. |
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Bradacal Special user 591 Posts |
Ok, so back to the chair suspension...
if you had to choose one, based on your experience with or what you have heard which model would you choose and why.... a/ European Chair Suspension b/ MAK Chair Suspension c/ Sommers Chair Suspension Factoring in the cost but more importantly the quality. |
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Donal Chayce Inner circle 1770 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-03-22 13:58, _MB_ wrote: As per some of the previous posts, it really depends on whether you want to suspend a child or an adult. Because I'm planning on performing the illusion with an adult female volunteer, I went with the Bill Smith/Magic Ventures prop. Based on John Bowlin's posts, it sounds like the European Chair Suspension will also safely support an adult, but I have no experience with that prop nor can I say that I've seen a presentation that utilized that prop. |
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Terry Owens Inner circle Ft. Wayne, Indiana 1707 Posts |
C...
I basically agree with Reynold but I have found when I do the chair suspension, it's not the applause that makes me think it's good, it's the gasps from the audience that let's me know it works. Most audiences are polite enough to applaud even bad programs, but when you here folks gasp, that's a little different indicator. It's all in the presentation...I do like David's idea too. |
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reynold Elite user Puerto Rico 490 Posts |
Donald: Of course Harbin will disagree, he created it. He will not publish something if he didn't think it was good (that is usually the case with some exceptions.)
I performed the chair suspension for about 6 times early in my career (I was about 16 yrs. old)and I used the body temperature premise and people didn't buy it so I got rid of the illusion. Maybe I was not a seasoned performer back then and my presentation was not convincing. But if I had to bet on the reason it would be that people are not idiots. Of course its the perfect illusion: use a volunteer from the audience, packs flat, lightweight, priced reasonable low and you can sell your show with a suspension. But what good is all this when the illusion is not killing. You might as well do a burnt bill routine and get the same reaction. Its impossible for me to imagine somebody performing this at a birthday party and not having all the kids shout,"there is a board underneath!" I don't want to create controversy maybe I got scarred from my early years. I just wanted to point out that David's ideas was interesting. Thanks, Reynold |
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reynold Elite user Puerto Rico 490 Posts |
Thanks Terry!
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Donal Chayce Inner circle 1770 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-03-22 14:07, reynold wrote: LOL...in Harbin's case, he would, in fact, publish some things that he would later admit "were not very good." I find it interesting, that of all of the tricks and illusions (including the Zig Zag) in "Magic of Robert Harbin," he felt that his version of the Torn & Restored Newspaper was "the best thing in it." (That's a direct quote.) But back to your thoughts regarding his Chair Suspension, I'm hoping that my experience with it proves you wrong! Donal |
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Mad Jack Regular user 195 Posts |
I can tell you that I have done the chair suspension hundreds of times over the years at parties, banquets, and in my stage show. And if you control sight lines, people rarely figure it out. If children are sitting on the floor, I make them stand up and move back, so they can't see under the board. I also make sure nobody can see the back of the gimicked chair. I have had many parents ask me how I did it after the show. What would be their motivation to lie about it? I have had some kids and parents figure it out, but many, many more did not. As with any illusion, some will... some won't... so what! If your overall show is good, one effect can't make or break the show.
MJ |
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