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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Stay Stack (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Cohiba
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Not having done a lot with Stay Stack in the past, and in playing around with Stay Stack and American new deck order (NDO), I thought I'd post this question.

Stay Stack seems to refer to a stack that correlates the positions of mates (AS, AC for example) from a particular point. (I'm trying to be vague here, as I'm not sure how much is (in)appropriate on a public forum).

Couldn't it also be considered a Stay Stack if you refer to just card values, rather than mates? For example, hearts paired with spades, clubs paired with diamonds, but values still follow the stay stack principle. Everything would work the same, but the position of the AH would be relative to the AS, as opposed to the AD, etc. It seems like you would still be able to perform most stay stack effects.

In your experience, is this the case? Can you think of effects where this arrangement wouldn't be conducive to typical stay stack effects?

My point is that American NDO is in this type of stay stack, and it seems like it would be as powerful as the typical stay stack. One type of stay stack effect I could see it effecting would be in a dealing procedure, where you're counting on a particular suit to fall at a particular position. With a little thinking though, it seems like you should be able to work around this.

Thanks for thoughts / opinions.
Cohiba
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Was my post too confusing, or does no one have an opinion or experience with Stay Stack effects?
Kjellstrom
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Yo can learn the Stay/Mirror Stack from Allan Ackerman´s DVD: Advanced Card Control Series, Faro Shuffle, Vol.6. Excellent source.

The big book Mnemonica by Juan Tamariz has lot of info and effects depending on a stay stack, recommended.

In the book Cardiste by Rusduck you have some info about Stay Stack.
plus in Peter Duffie´s book: Principles & Deceptions.

My favourite stay stack effect:
Ed Marlo: Marlos Matching Routine

Mats Kjellstrom
Magicmike1949
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You are correct that you could use the American NDO as a stay stack. Kjellstrom is also correct that if you really want to learn about stay stack, study Tamariz's Mneumonica.
Cohiba
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Thanks for your help Mats and Mike!
vinkelhaken
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I would agree with Cohiba that the criteria for Stay stack is the mirroring of the cards. What and how the cards mirror each other would depend of what effect you want to create.
EdgarWilde
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Cohiba, I agree with vinkelhaken.
Staystack is the mirroring, you can mirror on whatever your criteria/needs are.
If you want you could match 8C with 5D, 10D with 3C etc (you figure out where I came up with this combo Smile - as long as you know the "key", you are fine to recognise what card is selected/used or whatever - the matching of H & D is just to make it easier for you.
Cohiba
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Gotcha. I just came across the same info in Mnemonica - Juan states that you could memorize the mirrored pairs in any stack and it would function as a stay stack (like you mention above Edgar).

My only thought is that certain stay stack effects couldn't be done if the suits don't match, such as Marlo's Matching routine, right? I don't have that effect, but I'm guessing you need the suit's color-coordinated as well as the values for this to work. Can anyone confirm?

Thanks!
edh
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Cohiba you are correct.
Magic is a vanishing art.
Cohiba
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Thanks edh!
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