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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Eye Direction and Lying (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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VIEW
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........meeow
Alan Munro
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NLP is based loosely on the work of Dr. Milton Erickson. Erickson said something to the effect that NLP was a dumbed down version of his work. I'm sure that you can find his books on Amazon, if you want to study the real deal.
Philosophry
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It's also loosely based on the work of Fritz Perls & Virginia Satir. However, studying Erickson, Perls or Satir to help a mentalism act would be a complete waste of time. Incidently, Bandler himself dropped eye-direction as useful in NLP although many practioners are unaware of this.
xersekis
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Actually I know bandler quite well and I would be careful ever of quoting him - as to what he does or does not do. He very completely obfuscates much ... claims made inside one of his training may or may not be accurate reflection of reality and may be metaphoric, an analogy or for learning loops - or many other purposes besides describing what actually does or doesn't go on. That is why it is good investment in oneself to learn higher principles when studying nlp - rather than listening to instructors describe reality - that is not what it is always about - and it is a great mistake for the many who quote - or get stuck at particular levels of development. Plus one is forgetting how material is sequenced, and how it is designed for moving people towards or away from ...(what or who)

if this seems cryptic it is --- for the uninitiated. Sorry about that.

There are only a couple of NLP people I would ever quote - and that does not mean the people I am or am not quoting aren't good people - it is a matter of what the content of their quotes are designed for. I would never quote bandler or grinder for example - except in rare cases and unless I could verify the veracity of the statements - that is not because they lie - but because they are working at a different level. Those who quote them are not at the same level of development. NO offense intended but since I have known these guys for years and years I understand them pretty well. That is why I offer this caveat to saying what they do or don't do any longer.

eye accessing cues are a useful addition to any tool box and they are only one of many pieces.

If you could not ever use eye accessing cues it doesn't mean you couldn't use other-equally or more powerful approaches...

but if you can... why not use everything that may give you an edge.

in the same way one with years of experience and exposure to the various methods and teachers of magic can usually tell where a student comes from, the level of that student's expertise, and who they studied with ( usually this is true in all fields - music etc)

one schooled for years in NLP and working with the various name trainers or studying with same can generally tell the level of expertise or development and understanding of those making statements regarding NLP - hence not intending ever to insult - but when someone with little or no experience comments on something it is painfully obvious - as it is when someone with years of experience comments.

anyway - tools are tools --- different craftsman utilize different tools and understand them differently. Many people would be well served to study the works of erickson, satir, perals and a host of others including the works of bandler and grinder. eye accessing cues weren't from nlp alone.. they were not invented in other words --- by nlp they were appropriated and developed. since the early days of those books lots of newer understandings regarding how to utilize them has come to light.... but it isn't necessarily I print.

bottom line - I say learn from whomever you can - everyone has something to offer --- some more than others - but still everyone has something to offer

deliriously

dave
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I have found the eye accessing cues to be very accurate over the years. In that the majority of people Ive worked with use these eye patterns when making constructs or accessing memories as claimed. And its relatively easy to notice or calibrate to those that don't follow the norm. The thing about lying is that it assumes lies are constructs. However a good liar that has prepared will have turned his constructs into memories. Especially if he has had time to rehearse. However I have found the eye accessing cues to do pretty much what they say they do. I just haven't found them too useful personally.
Blackwood
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In his psychological illusion, Ode to Ekman, Sean Waters includes an idea to use eye-accessing cues to add depth to an already excellent routine. It's easy and safe – if you miss, no big deal. If you hit, you're a wizard.
xersekis
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Essential applications for eye accessing in or outside of therapy is for pacing and leading...
knowing how someone is processing (internal thinking) of which eye indicators may be a part - is a good part of recognizing patterns, predicting outcomes and packaging info for many differing results.
mindpunisher
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They are also used for eliciting strategey's. Again something I didn't find useful. I have always found it easier to create rapport and calibrate to my own internal K as a way of pacing and leading. Even to a large extent reading someones mind. Useful in doing readings as well as influencing.
xersekis
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Mindpunisher ---

I think strategy elicitation as taught by most - cumbersome - I do think the exercise of learning to do it is quite valuable - learning how to pay attention sort, track etc. etc. (and there are other more useful ways to et the same info)

and I do agree with calibrating to internal K as long as there is an external check.
james1a
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The post which suggested that a tool is as useful as the owner makes it I found dubious. Should I have a wrench in my toolbox which is a very badly made and badly designed wrench which strips nuts and damages fingers which also however I have found may be used to open a can of paint does not change the fact that it is a lousy wrench and does not do the job for which it was purchased.
With the respect to the statement that no one ever said use a chart, I have heard many people not a few many people say use the chart.
james1a
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