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Mikael Eriksson
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This is my first post at The Magic Cafe.
Several times in India, doctors and reserchers have observed some people, often yogis, that can make their pulse slow down. Note that I´m not saying STOP the pulse, but SLOW IT DOWN.

I know that some people in magic or mentalism used to "stop the pulse". You know what I mean. But making the pulse beat slower seems to be a totally different thing. It´s one thing to make it disappear so no one can detect it, but another to let someone take the pulse and they can detect how it sinks from 70 to 30 beats per minute in an even pace.

Can this be done by "fake"?

What´s your opinion?

Mikael
Drewmcadam
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Welcome Mikael.

I don't know about slowing it down, but I often stop my pulse (and no, I don't use the usual method) but first, I speed it up. How? I hold my breath and think of "naughty" things! Perhaps you can do this when the first pulse rate is being taken, so that RELATIVELY, it seems that you have slowed your pulse, then relax, think of boring things and breathe using your diaphragm and the top of the lungs to get more oxygen into the bloodstream.

Drew
Dennis Michael
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I talked about this under one of the posts in mentalism in hypnotism. Yes, it is possible to slow one's pulse but not stop it.

There are also tricks to stop the pulse by blocking it from a higher up pressure point.
Dennis Michael
Mikael Eriksson
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Quote:
On 2002-02-22 16:43, DenDowhy wrote:
I talked about this under one of the posts in mentalism in hypnotism. Yes, it is possible to slow one's pulse but not stop it.


But can it be slowed down to the extreme points that has been meassured? It´s been mentioned less then 10 beats per minute.

Mikael
Dennis Michael
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I don't think ten beats is realistic, however, I believe anything is possible when it comes to controlling the body.
Dennis Michael
MichelAsselin
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If one thinks about it, it is relatively easy to 'let one or two" through, then stop again, then resume again. Thus, one can appear to have slowed to 10 some beats per minute. Which is probably more believable than stopping totally. During the slowing, you may appear stiff and rather rigid.

A valsalva maneuver, i.e. straining against your diaphgram, will cause temporary slowing of your heartbeat.
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Megatherion
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Hi,

You don't have to fake it. Use the breathing techniques used in meditation and martial arts.

There is real magic, the illusion is that we think everything is a trick.

Yours faithfully

:devilish: Dan Smile
BroDavid
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While I haven't done it in awhile (read that - 10 years ago) I used to cut my pulse to around 30 beats a minute using self hypnosis and similar mind/body control techniques.

Slowing my complete body system came in very handy for underwater activities. No magic, or underwater escapes, just swiimming underwater for the beauty I found there.

However from a practial standpoint, while it was a measurable reduction from my normal 68 beats, and I was able to stay under for extended periods of time, it never seemed to impress anyone but me.

So for that reason - along with being uncomfortable with hypnotism (even self hypnotism) and not having time for recreational free diving. I just quit fooling with it altogether.

I don't know that I could have gone much further down than 30. But why would one want to go to 10 anyway?

BroDavid
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Mikael Eriksson
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Thanks BroDavid, what you wrote was very interesting.

"I used to cut my pulse to around 30 beats a minute using self hypnosis and similar mind/body control techniques"

So it can be done without trickery! That was my suspicion!


"I don't know that I could have gone much further down than 30. But why would one want to go to 10 anyway?"

I guess there are several reasons they (the holy men) are doing it. One could be because in their beliefs they want to show "mind over matter". Another could be as a profession, they get paid by tourists for doing it. That´s the way they earn their living!

Mikael
Rodan
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Bro David, I'm intrigued as to why you are now uncomfortable with hypnotism and self-hypnosis?
"To assert the impossibility of a fact comes to the same thing as saying that it has not as yet been observed; nothing authorises us to decide that it will never be observed." Joseph Maxwell 1858-1938
MatthewBlackwell
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I have to wonder why anyone would *want* to merely slow a pulse when they could stop it?

Surely stopping it is far more impressive?

Also, I'm sure with a certain amount of suggestion you could convince them it slowed even when it in fact only weakened and stopped.

I'd be inclined (if I wanted to convince them it slowed) to make it stop once (and have them note the phenomenon unprompted) and then restart it.

Then I'd fade it out again out with the suggestion 'can you <pause - then mildly emphasise> feel it slowing?' <wait> '...and now it's coming back... you can feel it gaining speed again...(?)

Easier, surely, than learning self-hypnosis and yoga for the sake of a mere trick enhancement...

Cheers,

Matthew Blackwell
Mikael Eriksson
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Hi Matthew.

I asked mainly to get a better understanding as to if it is possible to fake, I have drawn the conclusion that it is not possible to fake convincingly.

"I have to wonder why anyone would *want* to merely slow a pulse when they could stop it?"

1. Because what they show is REAL. They really slow their pulse down, not by trickery, but for real.

2. Maybe because it is a side effect of ANOTHER thing they want to show. It is not the main effect, but people notice it anyhow. For example: One guy in a street in India had made a hole in the ground, put his head into it, and someone covered his head with soil. He was holding his hands out to beg for money when the scientists came by. They checked his pulse and noticed it was only 10 beats/minute or whatever. They also found another thing very strange, he seemed to know where they were standing although he could not see them, because as they moved around, he always stretched his begging hand towards them. In this case the main effect was to show people that he could do without air for several minutes (I think the scientists were standing there for 20 minutes and then left). The lowering of the pulse accomplished this, since you do not need as much oxygen if your pulse is lower.

"Surely stopping it is far more impressive?"

No. Not since I know that you could fake it. I have not heard, however, about anyone faking lowering the pulse.

Mikael
MatthewBlackwell
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…Depends on the audience then I suppose...

I don't think you'll find many lay people that know you can stop your pulse, or would find it any less impressive a feat than slowing it.

A little quote of interest from The Secrets of Houdini by J. C. Cannell:

Quote:
The fakir appeared to go into what is called a trance and gave one or two low moans. During these moments his pulse was beating normally, but as I held his wrist,
I realized that it was getting distinctly slower in speed. I checked this fact carefully with my watch and told my friend on the other side [of the fakir] what was happening. The speed of the fakirs pulse on my side had gone down to less than half the normal, but my friend reported that, on his side, it was still beating at the usual rate.


Houdini goes on to discuss the method we all know to produce a ‘standard’ stopping of the pulse. However, he very clearly and explicitly describes a slowing of the pulse. We know the fakir is using the standard method since he controls the two sides of his body independently – and we only have one heart.

What we have here is a very interesting eye-witness account from one who we would usually credit with being a very keen observer. Yet it seems flawed?

Cheers,

Matthew Blackwell
Mikael Eriksson
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Quote:
On 2002-03-25 18:28, MatthewBlackwell wrote:
What we have here is a very interesting eye-witness account from one who we would usually credit with being a very keen observer. Yet it seems flawed?

Cheers,

Matthew Blackwell





I don´t know Matthew, Sometimes maybe we must trust people´s observational skills?
If we always say that something can be explained by this and that, I think we miss true mysteries.

Mikael
Allen Gittelson
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I believe you will find if you experiment with monitoring it that when measuring the pulse on a persons wrists that they will not necessarily match each other. The "one heart, one identical pulse everywhere theory" I believe is false. There is a type of body reading that can be done by determining which side of the person's pulse has altered.

I cannot say that I know a great deal about this medically, but on a couple occasions under strict challenge conditions I did use this type of reading fairly successfully. I don't use this method typically, but it did help to be aware of this in the particular situations I encountered.

I realize that I didn't need to take the challenge, but I did see the opportunity to grow my skills and work on learning something new.

In one case, my girlfriend peeked a card and then put the cards away and I had no clue what card she looked at and I had no access to the deck. She knows about swami gimicks and such and I chose to rise to the challenge by body reading. I asked for her cooperation and asked for her to think of one arm as black suits, and one for red, read the result and moved to the next binary test until we got down to the end.

I think I initially read about this in Psychological Subtleties, but I am not completely certain. I think I've seen it written elsewhere.

Try it and really work to hone the skill and see what you think. I'd love to talk to someone who knows more about this. I'm very interested in contact mindreading.

Regards,
Allen
Alan Munro
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It's easy to stop your pulse, although you shouldn't do it for more than a few seconds. The gimmick is a racketball!

How you use it, I think many of you already know.
Thoughtreader
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Quote:
On 2002-03-31 02:43, Alan Munro wrote:
It's easy to stop your pulse, although you shouldn't do it for more than a few seconds. The gimmick is a racketball!

How you use it, I think many of you already know.



But one does not need to use a gimmick to do it! At least I don't.
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Ramsay
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The methods of slowing, speeding and stopping your pulse without using the ball are well described on page 312 in issue 37 of The Compleat Invocation. I have recently been doing research into this effect (slowing and stopping your pulse) as I have my own effect wherein your pulse is stopped and then you appear to stop the pulse of a spectator (no stooge!) that will soon appear in a book I will be releasing written by Kenton Kneeper.

My two personal fav (other than my own effect) uses of this I have seen are;

An effect by Leslie May where he "slips" into an altered state and has his pulse checked as a way of "proving his astral journey" (this appeared in an old issue of the Invocation) and an effect of the mighty Steve Banachek which appeared in one of Docc Hilfords magazines where his pulse stops during a living and dead test - to locate the "dead" slip.

Anyway, hope this is of help,

Regards,

Luke.



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Mikael Eriksson
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Reading all the answers in this thread, I still can not find any convincing evidence that you can SLOW the pulse down convincingly. The easiest explanation of what I described in the beginning is that his pulse really was slowed down. Not appeared to be, but really was. You can´t hold your breath for more than 20 minutes if your metabolism is as high as it use to be. But if you lower your metabolism, you do not need as much oxygen, and can hold your breath longer. If you lower your metabolism your pulse rate also drops. I have experienced it myself. During a special diet my pulse rate dropped (lowered metabolism), and instead of being able to hold my breath for 1.5 minutes which is my usual limit, I was able to hold it for 3 minutes.

Mikael
Ramsay
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As I said in my previous post a workable (i use it) method f slowing your pulse appears in the Compleat Invocation on page 312.

It really does slow the pulse down.

Luke.
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