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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Trick coin trickery » » Why use a gimmick when you can use none? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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KurtK
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Why would you buy a gimmick for Scotch and Soda when you can learn quite a few sleights and gain talent while getting the same or near the same effect using no gimmicks?
fastmagic
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Kurt,
with the scotch and soda gimmick set, you do get a very amazing effect. I will agree with you that you can achieve the same effect with sleights and non gimmicked coins. BUT, some of the MOST POWERFUL magic is very direct and very simple...you put two coins in your hand , and without even moving, one of them is instantly gone. you CANNOT do that with non gimmicked coins. the same thing goes with a coins across routine, yes I can be done without any gimmicks, but the power of the effect is compromised by the addition of movements. compare jay sankey's "mr. clean's coins across" and David Roth's coins across, I think you'll see my point.
TWOCAN
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Fast magic. I couldn't have said that any better. 100% correct. Every day a differant gaff is made to better the one before. Cheers PT
Close up coin magic.

Okito box clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=100n9CnFjXw
Jaz
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While I mostly use normal coins there are just some things you just can't do without some help. That little extra help can make effects easier, cleaner looking and more impossible.
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2008-03-23 16:36, KurtK wrote:
Why would you buy a gimmick for Scotch and Soda when you can learn quite a few sleights and gain talent while getting the same or near the same effect using no gimmicks?



First, the gimmicks are sold to a market which wants easy tricks

From there - until about thirty years ago the idea of using sleights except where a gaff permits a result one could not reliably get without recourse to the gaff was considered "way too much fuss" by most in this community.

Today - thanks to pioneers like David Roth and others who followed that way of thinking has by and large changed - and we have folks like Armando Lucero and Giacomo Bertini to watch. You can also see this use of gaffs in Steve Dusheck's tricks like his Slippery Sam Combination Coin set and earlier Ultimate Copper Silver Transpo.

You can pretty much see the way of thinking change as you read Harry Lorayne's Apocalypse magazine volumes as tricks which may use a gaff but in more subtle ways made their way into print - like Curtis Kam's Inferrential C - S transpo.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
mickey.w
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I think the question is not why,
it's when.

The point of using gaff or sleight, is simply the matter of practicality.

In true thinking of creating the best effect for lay people,

it should be, for that particular situation, which method (gaff or sleight) will give the GREATEST IMPACT to the effect.....the one with a better effect will be the one to use.

factors contributing to great impact/effect would include:
directness of effect
elimination of unnecessary moves
cleaniness of effect
impossibility of effect
visualness of effect

etc.

a reminder to you--lay people have no idea you can sort effects into the "gaff" and "sleight" catagory---they only sort magic into "good effect" and "bad effect" catagories.

So why use gaffs when sleights can do the same?
Well for one it's rarely the same.
For two, maybe because the effect is better.
If the effect isn't better, then the magician must be dumb,
or he is just performing to himself.
aqmagish20
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Why not?
Mobius303
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You can do some things with a combination of Gaffs and Slieghts that are unachievable with just one or the other.
Scotch and Soda can be worked with gimmick and non gimmick ...the effect is the same on laymen but changes a little to magicians. Just did both versions for three people ....does my wife really count?....No difference at all in reaction.

Coinone is another example of a trick that can be done with and with out gaffus and the effect to laymen is the same yet to magicians it is different.

Gaffs on the surface make tricks easy but deep down they can really mess up various aspects of "magicians" thinking.
There is some good thinking in this thread.
Mobius
magicshayne
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I totally agree with mobius don't just limit yourself to useing non gaff coins without slights the gaffs are there to help so you can then concentrate on what really matters and that is the pefromance patter and creating that magical moment in the spectators minds and when thay back track the will get stuck and have no possable idea how it was done
Joshua Barrett
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A thread like this seems to me a good example of many close-up "magicians" many, maybe most(?) are more interested in moves then in magic/entertaining/performace.

I love coin magic, and moves but for me its all about the effect, performance and most important to me the entertainment.

use the best method at your disposal for what you are trying to accomplish and for some of you that a display of finger dexterity
KurtK
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Alright... I had just been wondering. I just meant to ask why or why not use a gaff. Touchy Touchy....yeesh
Joshua Barrett
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Its not touchy there is just a lot of answers for a broad question.

they why or why not could be whatever works best to accomplish the effect. much of that leads into routine construction etc and how the routine builds ... so on and so forth.

or maybe as simple as performance enviroment

or angles.

or many other things =D
Koolmagic114
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I think it's a great question.. And I agree with Joshua. Love coin magic as well. And certainly not afraid of sleight of hand. But again as he states it's not the method but the effect you get. Wether it's with gaff coins.. or sleight of hand the spectator is still seeing the end result of the effect.

If the over all effect can be done eaier with the gaffs. Then why not take a break from the sleights, give yourself a rest and do it the easy way.

When I perform.. I usually do a few effects that are all slieght of hand. Then when my audience is staring to look more closely or I feel one (wise) person is trying to look a bit more closely I throw in a self worker, sleightless effect and relax a bit and give them absolutly nothing to see.

POOF!
<gone>
Eddy

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Co-Creator of "TAGZ" / "Iced Over" / " TelePad" / "Penigma"
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TWOCAN
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The only bad question is the one you don't ask. Keep them comming cause we all have questions! And no better place then here to ask.
Close up coin magic.

Okito box clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=100n9CnFjXw
gaddy
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Sleight of hand for it's own sake is no great virtue, but it is a lot of work... Some people like work.

I use both gimmicks and sleights.
*due to The Magic Cafe's editorial policies, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
NicholasD
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Of course, many sleight of hand effects require an extra coin. If that extra coin can be a gimmick, why not? It's extra anyway.
jbk2006
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BECAUSE I'M LAZY!....LOL
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2008-03-25 04:07, gaddy wrote:
Sleight of hand for it's own sake is no great virtue, but it is a lot of work... Some people like work...


unfortunately if the audience (remember them?) suspect you are doing work - it's not magic but juggling - so why bother?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
David Neighbors
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Yea As the Old Masters Said " If it where realy magic how would it look" Then Get as close as you can!
David Neighbors



The Coinjurer

www.coinjurer.com
krintz
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For a true state-of-the-art performance, it really is a combination of both, isn't it? That modern-day gaff has to go somewhere, and an old-fashioned sleight can get it there.
KRINTZ
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