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tommy Eternal Order Devil’s Island 15752 Posts 
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There are many other methods of doctoring cards to meet the requirements of particular games, and the skill, or rather want of it, of the operator. By roughening the faces of some of the cards they will hold together, and are more easily retained while shuffling. Faro cards, used in connection with a certain form of "brace" box, are treated in this manner.
-Erdnase- I asked this question before on the pick a card place some time ago and no one gave me an answer I was happy with. I wonder if there is some one here that can tell me; What the blazes is he talking about?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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iamslow Inner circle Proffessional Slacker 1894 Posts
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Quote: On 2008-03-24 23:07, tommy wrote:
"Everyone is tough till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
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JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1672 Posts
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Tommy,
There were many types of gaffed faro boxes in use before, during and after Erdnase's time. One of them was called a "sand tell" box. It allowed the operator to determine the value (usually high or low only) of the under card. The box was specially constructed with (usually) a false wall that enabled the "new" top card to slip towards the edge of the frame as the "old" top card was being removed. When certain roughed cards were removed from the box, the roughed surface would allow a tiny dot placed on the cards to be moved slightly toward the frame of the dealing box. This indicated that a high card (or low, as the case may be) was now second from top. In some cases, the boxes even allowed the operator to deal two cards as one. Again, it is assumed that the operator knew the order or had the cards marked in some way so as to know the second card down. Naturally, if two cards are dealt as one, the case-keeper would have to be adjusted accordingly, and there are references in the literature detailing how this was done. Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
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JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1672 Posts
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Just to add to the above note, the roughing could be accomplished via what is essentially a type of sandpaper, or it could be applied chemically to the backs and faces of the necessary cards.
A common mixture was a few drops of glycerin in alcohol. Jason PS: The tiny dots used with the sand-tell box is perhaps the only application I know of where marks are placed on the faces of the cards but are still read visually. Can anyone think of another example?
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
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Mr. Z Special user Las Vegas, NV 826 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-03-25 02:17, JasonEngland wrote: Does anyone even care?
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
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JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1672 Posts
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Mr. Z,
You are so off the "come over and play" list. Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
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tommy Eternal Order Devil’s Island 15752 Posts
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"By roughening the faces of some of the cards they will hold together, and are more easily retained while shuffling."
It is that part that always interested me. "they will hold together" but they don't when you try it. By exploring it though I did find a couple of ways of marking cards on their faces for touch work. I even found a sound work one. That is the treated cards were making a diffent sound as I dealt them. I found it was too hard to use in practice but quite an interesting idea. Interesting as I thought one could treat the Aces and use ones ears to hear when another dealer dealt an Ace, if you follow my meaning.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1672 Posts
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Tommy,
I find that roughed cards do hold together when shuffling...overhand. As fond as Erdnase was of the overhand shuffle, it is likely that this is the method he had in mind when he wrote that. If you're trying to riffle or faro shuffle roughed cards, then I would imagine you won't find much difference. Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
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tommy Eternal Order Devil’s Island 15752 Posts
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I meant overhand Jason. I can not make it work at all. I can understand the science theory of how it might work, relative friction but it don't work for me in practice.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Stepanov Regular user Russia, St. Petersburg 184 Posts
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If we looks closely to beginning of Expert, from "Professional Secrets" to "Importance of Details" we will find close relation to book "Sharps and Flats" by Maskelyne. When he wrote about holdouts looks like he keep on left hand book of Maskeline and on right hand he keep a pen. On chapter 8 "THE GAME OF FARO" easy find roughened cards.
There are suppositions and there are facts. Roughened cards inside Maskelyne - fact.
Stepanov Oleg Anatolievich
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C-Taylor Loyal user 261 Posts
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Every time you type something I read it with a Russian accent... it cracks me up and I love it!
"theres a lot of good card magic in that book, unfortunately you have to have skill to do most of it."
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Stepanov Regular user Russia, St. Petersburg 184 Posts
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What kind of Russian accent you mean? From movies where american actors play Russian spy or you know real Russians like me?
Stepanov Oleg Anatolievich
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card cheat Elite user 426 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-03-25 02:17, JasonEngland wrote: Jason, I am sure that I don't completely understand what you mean by "still read visually", but black line comes to mind. CC |
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JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1672 Posts
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CC,
Blockout work on the back of a card is read visually. Juice on the back is read visually. Punchwork on the back of a card is read tactilely (via the thumb usually). Blackline work is on the face but is read tactilely (via the fingers). The tiny dots in sand tell work were on the faces but were read visually. In other words, it was a mark on the faces of the cards that you had to see to read. I can't think of another example of that type of work. It's also an example of a marking system where the marks on the cards don't indicate the values of the cards they're on. They indicate the next cards down. That too may be unique. Can you think of any other examples of card markings where the marks are on the faces, other than tactile marks? Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
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card cheat Elite user 426 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-03-26 10:24, JasonEngland wrote: Jason, I was already aware of all of this, but don't know of any other systems that have this in common. Then again, I don't play paper and, therefore, my knowledge of marking systems is relatively limited. I don't think that there are many (if any at all) modern applications for a system such as the one of which you speak. It would be interesting to hear about them, though. CC |
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kcg5 Inner circle who wants four fried chickens and a coke 1875 Posts
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I have read of putting an iron to the backs of face cards found in KEM decks. WHen dealt down and out, there is a difference.
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!
"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill |
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iamslow Inner circle Proffessional Slacker 1894 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-04-09 19:24, kcg5 wrote: yeah, of course it will be different, the face cards will be melted and warped...
"Everyone is tough till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
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kcg5 Inner circle who wants four fried chickens and a coke 1875 Posts
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No, Iamslow ( is your name somehow a clue?
), they don't melt. they are several processes that I have heard of. wet a towel put the card in the middle and iron over the towel. or just regular iron on low, KEMS are very well made.... I also hope to attain the rank of professional slacker someday, now I just toil in the minor leagues.......
regards, kevin
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!
"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill |
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splice Inner circle Canada 1245 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-04-10 03:40, iamslow wrote: Equally obviously unsuited to ironing clothes, as they will be burned and discolored. |
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JHNelson Regular user Portland, Oregon 120 Posts
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Using the iron on KEM's makes them slightly more flexible. It's difficult to use it with the second deal. Usually it's used to gain information of opponents hole cards. Usually used to make high-low cards.
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Posted: Mar 24, 2008 10:07 pm 
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