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Vandy Grift
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It's really a distinction without a difference, just nitpicking as Danny said. I consider it free odds because they don't HAVE to let you bet behind the line. And nobody has to bet behind the line, you can just make a line bet and leave it at that. Why do people bet behind the line?

Quote:
Taking the odds is like 2 for 1 hamburgers--you still gotta buy the first one.


Yeah you buy the first one and you get one free. Unless you were never planning to buy a burger in the first place, and you decided to buy one just to get one free, you're not out any more than you would have been in the first place.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
Mr. Z
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Quote:
On 2008-03-31 15:42, Dannydoyle wrote:
True. But that does not make my statement wrong now does it?

I really get sick of debating little word games with "experts" who feel that they have to nit pick something just to be right.


Using such a term makes you sound like you don't know what you're talking about. I'm doing the Lord's work here, forgive me.
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
Mr. Z
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Quote:
On 2008-03-31 16:32, Vandy Grift wrote:
Why do people bet behind the line?


I assume this is a rhetorical question...
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
Vandy Grift
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Boy you're sharp.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
JasonEngland
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Quote:
On 2008-03-31 19:20, Mr. Z wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-03-31 16:32, Vandy Grift wrote:
Why do people bet behind the line?


I assume this is a rhetorical question...



Actually,

I was going to bring this up in an earlier post, but didn't. I've never understood why craps authors recommend the odds (or "free odds", if you prefer) bet. I know what it does, I'm just not sure why everyone thinks it's such a good deal.

Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
Mr. Z
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Quote:
On 2008-04-02 00:56, JasonEngland wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-03-31 19:20, Mr. Z wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-03-31 16:32, Vandy Grift wrote:
Why do people bet behind the line?


I assume this is a rhetorical question...



Actually,

I was going to bring this up in an earlier post, but didn't. I've never understood why craps authors recommend the odds (or "free odds", if you prefer) bet. I know what it does, I'm just not sure why everyone thinks it's such a good deal.

Jason


Well technically it's the only bet on the layout that the house doesn't get a piece of. Pass Line bettors still have the worst of it on any point, of course.
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
Mr. Z
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Actually the biggest scores in dice that I've personally seen have all come from the "worst" bets offered, usually Hardway parlays or just putting it all in the Field. Saw a guy turn $300 into $50,000 just betting the Field, then blow it all back in less than 20 minutes.
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
Vandy Grift
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Of course the biggest scores are going to happen when you buck the big odds.

I like the free odds bet. Just the fact that it's not marked on the layout is a indication that it's a decent bet, possibly the best bet in the joint. It may not be a sexy as some of the other bets, but at least you get an honest shot at it. And if there is a multiplier you can get more money out there on a safer bet. I think you can get stupid with multipliers, but if they are going to let you bet 2X or 5X it's a decent proposition, if you like to play that way.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2008-03-31 19:17, Mr. Z wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-03-31 15:42, Dannydoyle wrote:
True. But that does not make my statement wrong now does it?

I really get sick of debating little word games with "experts" who feel that they have to nit pick something just to be right.


Using such a term makes you sound like you don't know what you're talking about. I'm doing the Lord's work here, forgive me.


Doing the Lords work huh? Well Jason just used the exact same term, Vandy used it, and as it works out I can think of 2 casinos at least who use that term.

Now funny it seems as if you were trying to act smart about something and using a technicality to nit pick. Heck I just read the "free odds" term in Harry Anderson's Games You Can't Lose. Is he also a person who sounds like he does not know what he is talking about? This list grows Z huh?

I think your comment says a lot more about what you sound like than what I sound like.

Sorry I am just doing the Lords work after all.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2008-04-02 07:20, Mr. Z wrote:
Actually the biggest scores in dice that I've personally seen have all come from the "worst" bets offered, usually Hardway parlays or just putting it all in the Field. Saw a guy turn $300 into $50,000 just betting the Field, then blow it all back in less than 20 minutes.


Shouldn't it be self explanitory that the biggest scores come from the long odds? Obviously if you bet the hard ways it pays better when and if they hit. OBVIOUSLY you are going to make more money betting $200 and hitting the 12 hard way as opposed to betting $200 and playing the pass line.

I mean you want to nit pick me about "free odds" and post something so self explanitory that being an "expert" is not even needed. I gotta admit though you are "right" about what you said. Also you would be right to say that the more money you bet, the more you have an opportunity to win all things being equal.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mr. Z
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Quote:
On 2008-04-04 02:05, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-04-02 07:20, Mr. Z wrote:
Actually the biggest scores in dice that I've personally seen have all come from the "worst" bets offered, usually Hardway parlays or just putting it all in the Field. Saw a guy turn $300 into $50,000 just betting the Field, then blow it all back in less than 20 minutes.


Shouldn't it be self explanitory that the biggest scores come from the long odds? Obviously if you bet the hard ways it pays better when and if they hit. OBVIOUSLY you are going to make more money betting $200 and hitting the 12 hard way as opposed to betting $200 and playing the pass line.

I mean you want to nit pick me about "free odds" and post something so self explanitory that being an "expert" is not even needed. I gotta admit though you are "right" about what you said. Also you would be right to say that the more money you bet, the more you have an opportunity to win all things being equal.


Well considering you use terms such as "12 hard way" just further illustrates my point. Hint, there is no such thing as a "12 hard way." "Hardway" means the combination can also be made the "easy way." The 12 can only be made one way, being that 6 is the highest number on both dice. Go asking for hard 12's on a crap game and watch the crew snicker.

The "free odds" term was a new one to me--I know guys who've dealt craps for over 40 years, and never once have I ever heard of such a term. In fact after your post I had to google it. It appears to be an older term used by some gaming writers but by no means a common thing.

View it as being "nit picky" or playing "word games" as much as you like, I was just trying to correct the misconception that the odds bet is "free." My apologies for wounding your ego by exposing your ignorance. Smile
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
Mr. Z
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Quote:
On 2008-04-04 01:59, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-03-31 19:17, Mr. Z wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-03-31 15:42, Dannydoyle wrote:
True. But that does not make my statement wrong now does it?

I really get sick of debating little word games with "experts" who feel that they have to nit pick something just to be right.


Using such a term makes you sound like you don't know what you're talking about. I'm doing the Lord's work here, forgive me.


Doing the Lords work huh? Well Jason just used the exact same term, Vandy used it, and as it works out I can think of 2 casinos at least who use that term.

Now funny it seems as if you were trying to act smart about something and using a technicality to nit pick. Heck I just read the "free odds" term in Harry Anderson's Games You Can't Lose. Is he also a person who sounds like he does not know what he is talking about? This list grows Z huh?

Sorry I am just doing the Lords work after all.


I certainly wouldn't put Harry Anderson on my list of dice experts.

Quote:
I think your comment says a lot more about what you sound like than what I sound like.


Yeah I agree it certainly doesn't make you look too good.
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
splice
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12 the hard way, that's a good one.

Reminds me of the time we were playing a 4/8 limit game and this new kid shows up. First hand, a couple of folds, a raise, and the action is on the new kid.

He puts on a pair of sunglasses (no kidding), tanks for a couple of minutes. Dealer reminds him the action is on him. New kid announces "all in" and pushes all his chips into the pot. Everyone breaks out laughing, including the dealer. Sure was funny at the time.
Vandy Grift
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Quote:
On 2008-04-04 03:50, Mr. Z wrote:
The "free odds" term was a new one to me--I know guys who've dealt craps for over 40 years, and never once have I ever heard of such a term. In fact after your post I had to google it. It appears to be an older term used by some gaming writers but by no means a common thing.



I don't know, maybe it's a regional thing. I think most people do just call it an "odds bet", but I don't think "free odds" is an obscure term. I've been calling it that for years, don't know where I first heard it.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
Dannydoyle
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Much like 12 the hard way. It is more of a joke than anything. But again when we want to look superior and have to nit pick words, as opposed to what was actually said this is what we do.

My ego was not wounded, I was just shocked that you would go so far to try to look smart. People had already figured you were. At least I did, now not so much.

I would not put Harry as a dice expert either. Never said I would. Just was wondering if he sounded ignorant as well was my question. Where did I say he was an expert? I guess I missed that part.

So now because YOU had to google it, it makes me sound ignorant like I don't know what I am talking about right? Who has ego problems here? You don't know a term so therefore it is simply wrong and has no place in jargon? And I have ego problems? The old writers you spoke of must simply be sounding like me as if they have no idea what they are talking about right?

Must be nice to be the deciding factor as to what is and is not valid words to use. Huge responsability you hold. Sort of the gatekeeper of language I guess, congradulations.

I love to watch the "crew snicker" by the way, as they beg for tips because they are paid so well by the casino. Watch them snicker alright.

So people may do dumb things, but fact is that the tips they get from these people are what pays for their food. Yea snicker at people who like to gamble and have fun that is a great way to get tips to pad your $6 an hour. But then again you can always boost your ego by writing as if you are an "expert" on an internet forum and be nit picky about what it turns out are ACTUAL TERMS. Yea after 40 years YOU don't know it so it is the guy who wrote its fault. Guess it calls into question more YOUR KNOWLEGE than mine huh?

Naw don't back off, don't even admit that you opened your mouth way too soon. Never do something like that. Keep going at it and try to nit pick other things and accuse others of having a bruised ego. Next step is to check my spelling. It is horrid and may be able to distract people from the simple fact that you made a basic mistake. Tough thing after 40 years huh?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mr. Z
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You're not terribly good at this argument thing, are ya?
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
matu
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I'd hate to see Dannydole once is ego actually got bruised.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2008-04-04 16:36, Mr. Z wrote:
You're not terribly good at this argument thing, are ya?

NOT terribly good? Depends on how you look at it I guess.

No way your going to back up no matter how much you google things, you just keep posting and pretending your right. Your world is your world and no way to shake you from it. No problem. But the facts reamain.

Fact is IT IS A TERM, as you found out with google. YOU didn't know it and accused me of sounding like I don't know what I am talking about. But in reality you were the one with a complete lack of knowlege. But still I am the one who was wrong. Oh well, I bet you learn things at an impressive clip with that attitude don't you?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
luvisi
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Quote:
On 2008-03-30 20:41, Dannydoyle wrote:
My understanding is that if you get a casino that lets you take enough free odds bets, you can have a very slight advantage, (DO I MEAN SLIGHT!) over the casino.


Could you explain how this works? How large of an odds bet do you need to be able to make to gain an advantage? 100 times the line bet? 1000 times the line bet?

As far as I can tell, odds bets decrease the overall house percentage by increasing the denominator (average amount of each bet) while keeping the numerator constant (average house take on each bet). I see how arbitrarily large odds bets could make the house percentage arbitrarily small, but I don't see how any size of odds bets could make it go even the tiniest bit negative. What am I missing here?

Andru
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"Free Odds" isn't an esoteric, rare, or obscure term.

I've heard it used for a couple of decades.
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