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Ryan_B_Magic
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Does anyone no about this? Thia has been on theory 11 for a while and there is no info on it Thanks Ryan
Ryan_B_Magic
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I meant this
Rabid
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bghost
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bugjack
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Surprised to have not seen a post about this until now. And I'm curious as to how this will be received. I'm sure there will be people who think the last thing the magic community needs is an easier way for people to sell digital downloads. Having said that, I think this is implemented pretty well, and I like how they seeded it with work by name magicians like Mathieu Bich and Dani DaOrtiz and even a couple of free tricks. Over on the T11 board the 40% commission seems to be getting its share of criticism, but Theory11 is the first company to do this and, for some creative people, this will be a launchpad for them to build a name and create their own site/brand.
gdw
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40% commission?
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
Dan Bernier
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I have a bad feeling about it.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
theinternetguru
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There is nothing special about this concept. The Wire is a community e-commerce platform. There are many of them out there, including Amazon Marketplace and eBay. You upload your magic-related video (or other digital download) and people can purchase it through theory11.com. What you get for your 40% commission is the traffic (exposure) they provide to your product, as well as the headache involved in reviewing member submissions. This isn't an unusual cost, assuming that their marketing can bring eyeballs to your product (not sure what their traffic looks like).

I find the theory11.com site awkward to use, though, and the Wire pages looked glitched to me. If there is any sensibility in this concept, any of the big online retailers could offer the same thing. It's not like there is anything difficult about the technology. Penguin could have a platform online to do the same thing in a month, if they cared to.
theinternetguru
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In fact, it might make even more sense for Steve to launch a platform to do this here on the Café. There are already forums in place to advertise your stuff. It's just one step beyond this to allow people to complete their transaction here on the site.
gdw
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Guru, I think the point is it is something special, in magic. A platform like this for magic is something kind of new. I like the comparison to itunes.

If they made a program for it, like itunes, that might be good.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
bugjack
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I didn't say it was original. You're right, there are similar ventures in music and publishing. But it is new to magic. I'm curious as to how it works out. I think there is something different about magic than other forms of intellectual property. Like some of the other sites, the "crowd" is supposed to vote on tricks and move them up and down the list. As there becomes greater volume, crowd rating is what's going to make an individual video discoverable. But unlike a song, which can easily be spread virally, an instructional magic video cannot. Thus, a small group of paying customers eager to try out everything will have a pretty big effect on any item's visibility.
gdw
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One nice thing about magic, also from an IP perspective, is that it is one of the few remaining truly free markets, and, as a result, IMHO, we see so much innovation. We also see plenty of un original derivative work, but it pretty much get's called on, and many of those who make such work actually get to learn from their "mistakes" as a result.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
Dan Bernier
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Nothing like selling on amazon or other similiar markets. With Theory11 you have to submit it first, along with the explanation for approval first. You are not just giving 60% of your commisions to Theory11. For 60% commision they will sell it on their website. First, it must be approved. This means revealing the methods.

You have to make your own video and edit it. Theory11 justs sells it on their site after it's been approved. For this tTheory11 gets 60% of your commisions.

In comparision to other sites that charge a small fee to sell online, or a fee to advertise, I'm not sure what benifits the creator has in this venture idea, other than loosing 60% commision just to advertise on Theory11.

Sounds great for Theory11 though.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
bugjack
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Theory11 takes a 40% commission, not 60%. And I'm not sure what these other sites are that charge a small fee, at least in the VOD/download space. iTunes charges 30%, and you have to go through an aggregator (who, yes, approves your content based on legal and technical delivery standards). Aggregators are taking anywhere from 7.5 to 20% (this is, of course, in addition to Apple's 30%). I'm not sure the exact percentage for Amazon's VOD, but my guess is that it is comparable. I'm sure there are small sites that do charge less, but what that 40% gets you with T11 is their bandwidth, advertising presence, back-end payment system, accounting, customer service, and receptive community who have already entrusted T11 with their credit cards.

You get the T11 fans who are browsing the site looking for magic.

Personally, I think the 40% is high. But until more people enter the game, I wouldn't expect it to come down. And, sure, I think for some the value proposition won't be worth it.

My criticisms revolve more around the way the site is laid out the use of the crowd as a curators. I think it might be easy to be lost on the site once a lot of people submit videos. Also, frankly, I think what is good about The Wire -- the ease with which a creator can upload an effect -- is going to result in a lot of mediocre magic that only the most patient or deep pocketed will have the stamina to wade through for the few gems. Frankly, I'd rather know that a trusted person has selected the best effects and not have to do that sifting myself. But that's just me. I'm sure others will like this model.
gdw
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The comparison to itunes is probably most accurate.

As for the commission, if you produced the entire thing with them, they would be taking much more.
40% may still seem like a lot though, especially considering you could just put something on your own site. That's east now a days.
However you wont get nearly the same exposure. Taking home 60% of $1500 is much more than 100% of $500. And that's not taking into account your hosting costs etc doing it yourself.

Also, magic is, relatively, a very small market. If it were bigger, you would possibly see something more like $20 commission for the distributor.

Any who, this may still end up with a thin selection of quality material, at least as far as production quality.
I'm very interested to see where it goes.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
Dan Bernier
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This is just one company on the internet. Thwere are several who will host your downloads for a little fee. AND, as an example look what Payloadz does for you.

What will Theory11 offer again for 40% commission????????

From their ad, T11 isn`t offering much of anything to the customer/creator compared to what other companies are offering.

I'd provide other links to sites that will host your downloads for sale for a small fee or free but my point is to shop around and not just think that Theory11 is doing something new. They aren't, and imo they are not offering a fair deal compared to other sites out there. I'm just saying Smile
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
Radmak
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I can't believe there are people who can't understand the power of branding. Especially in this particular industry.

Quote:
On 2011-09-07 09:52, gdw wrote:
Taking home 60% of $1500 is much more than 100% of $500.

Good point.
UK Close-up and cabaret magician based in Scotland - www.radekmakar.co.uk
J M Talbot
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Agreed Radmak. Gospel Dan I understand the point you are trying to make but the big diffrence is that people are not typically on the payloadz or other sites looking to buy magic... Theory 11 has a much better chance of delivering "motivated" customers and there is definite value in that.
theinternetguru
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Right, what you are paying for on Theory11.com is the vertically-focused exposure they will provide to your product. It is exactly the same reason why the companies that produce effects distribute them through Murphy's and give up a portion of the revenue rather than (simply) sell them through their own site. If you can do your own marketing and anticipate a significant number of sales, you may not want to give Theory11.com 40% of your revenue. Taking home 60% of $1500 is much better than 100% of $500 -- for a one product outing with a small number of transactions. But it might be better in the long run to retain control of your brand rather than mash it in under Theory11's umbrella. If your idea is good, it can spread virally and you will get sales based on reviews of the thing itself and not the fact that it is on The Wire. It will really depend on what kind of product you have to offer and what your goal is in the long run.

Theory11.com is not iTunes by a long shot. iTunes is an icon; it (Apple) is the dominant player for music downloads, and the only player for iPhone and iPad applications. It's not clear that Theory11.com even gets a lot of traffic. There are many sites out there (including the big magic retailers and the one we are on right now) that likely draw many times the traffic that Theory11.com does. The value of bring on The Wire (as opposed to some other model of distribution, advertising or self-marketing) is yet to be determined.

One strong component that Theory11.com brings to the mix is that they are (on some level) validating your product. So the buyer has at least some confidence that you are not misrepresenting what you are delivering, and that the effect is not a direct rip off of someone else's idea. Paying 40% of the revenue for this and the marketing exposure is not unreasonable, and given the narrow nature of the market, you're unlikely to find a better deal than this out there (and unlikely to see Theory11.com drop their commission rate).

It will be interesting to hear from some people who actually use The Wire over the course of the next few months, to find out if it was worthwhile for them.
gdw
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Does anyone know how to brows through all of the effects on the Wire? There doesn't seem to be any clear indication.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
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