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RSD
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Toronto, Ontario
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I know some, if not all of you, will find this topic an uncomfortable one discuss, but I have been asked by other hypnotists, and there are some things I want to know.

8 years ago when I first started in hypnosis, I was fresh out of university and just wrapped up working as a magican (table hopping + b-day parties). As a magician, back then I would charge $150 for a show, which at the time I was happy with. For the first year or so as a hypnotist, I would charge $300 for a fully produced hypno show. I learned quickly, that I could make a lot more. I learned that from the hypnotists that were grumbling that I was potentially undercutting them. I look back at that rate and get a good chuckle out of it. As time passed, my show became more polished, I became better and what I did, and demand for my show increased. I currently charge a rate of $2500 per show. I get steady bookings, and I make a lot of concession sales. To be frank, I am happy with my income - life is good. Here's my issue...I have heard (urban legends?) of the veterans in my area that charge $10,000 for a show. I find this hard to fathom. I can see the odd show once a year where the big client calls and you get this big payday. But every booking? Is this possible? I don't think I would have the nerve to even utter the words "ten-thousand dollars", if a potential client called. I cant justify that rate for myself. I also book other acts for clients, and some B-list gossip magazine type entertainers sometimes don't even ask that much. For those of you who don't mind the discussion...how much do you charge for corporate events? Resorts? What about those daily shows in tourist towns? If this is true, how do I make the next step? I am way off the mark here and missing out on the big bucks? I made $10,000 once ever in a gig. That was a gig that I 4-walled and spent about $4000 on advertising.
Nongard1
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Sure the 10K gigs exist. But you are right, they are few and far between. 10K is easily possible as you noted with a 4-wall, or multi-date gigs (such as 10 shows over a 5 day period for a comedy club or fair) but frankly any Las Vegas performer would jump on the 10K for a show any day of the week, and include his expenses, so I am sure just like strippers lie and tell friends they "make 1K a night" stage hypnosists do the same. Does it happen. Yes. Is it often? No, not unless the hypnotists is putting up the money and and risk for the event.

Wonder how many of those people claiming 10K a gig are selling a $1800 training program....
Dr. Richard Nongard, Professional Hypnosis Training
Learn how to master the art of SpeedTrance, Clinical and Stage Hypnosis
Dannydoyle
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Eternal Order
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Never did a 10K gig. Not in 20 years
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mindpunisher
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When times were good in the early 90s.

I was earning around 8k (4k UK sterling) by today's ticket prices that would be double. That was 4 walling as you guys call it. I would do 12 week runs and do it week after week until the numbers dwindled take three or four months off and do it again. It went on at that level for three years. Getting your own venue is great. The only thing is you will find all the best spots are probably already taken.
Eddini_81976
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Even in Magic, I'm not much of a money-minded person, people have said in the pass I undersell myself. Now I charge $200.00 per show (45 minutes), or per hour if I'm doing weddings and walk around. 7 years ago I was only charging $100.00, so I've improved. I've done Magic a total of about 16 years. About $250.00 plus gas mileage is what Magicians in my area cost. I want to be close to their rate but just a tiny bit cheaper.

So what is a 4 wall? My guess is most Hypnotist make $2,500.00 - 5,000.00 a show right? This guy I know on the internet just a few years older than me, who's only studied through the Jerry Kein Course, some seminars told me he had a first gig coming up (this was like 10 months ago, and I'm sure he's done more since then and charges more I'm guessing) was going to charge a school I believe $650.00. Anyway that's all I know and DON'T know as far as charging, Ed, (Eddini), C.H.
"Treat Others As You'd Want To Be Treated" - Jesus Christ
Dannydoyle
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4 walling is basically renting a space. YOU advertise and sell tickets, they get the same fee no matter what.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mindpunisher
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Ed why do you want to be cheaper?

Why not aim to be better value and charge a wee bit more? Not everyone will book based on the cheapest. Aim higher give better value believe you can do it.

Life is too short to be the cheapest in any walk of life.
Nongard1
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WOW! Something else I agree with you on MP...

People do not hire the cheapest performer, in fact if one charges $10 and the other $15 I think most people booking will pick the $15 becasue they people equate price with quality, and in entertainment they are seeking quality.

Of course, this rule does not ALWAYS apply, but I guarantee those who charge more probaly have more bookings than the lowest price performer. This is a piece of advice Danny Orleans shared with me in 1978, and it has served me well...
If your reading Danny, THANX!

Richard
Dr. Richard Nongard, Professional Hypnosis Training
Learn how to master the art of SpeedTrance, Clinical and Stage Hypnosis
Eddini_81976
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I agree and disagree. I firmly believe you get what you pay for. I've heard too that the more expensive they'll be like "wow he must be good" or "Why is this guy so cheap? What's wrong with him". I myself have money problem. As you know my budget is very low, and a lot of people are in my boat. Myself if I were going to hire a Magician (if I didn't know Magic), I'd HAVE to choose the cheapest. You know I've had people call and tell me to be avaiable at such and such date. So I'd clear my schedule, but the day before they'd call and cancel. Even though I'm cheaper I know it has to be due to price. My guess is they found some kid or "uncle" who knows a few tricks and did it much cheaper. I've been in the yellow pages like 2 years and I MIGHT do 1-3 shows a year.

I do mostly Street Busking in the summers. I LOVE IT, meeting all kinds of people, but I wish I had more gigs. I need to get my confidence up and go to the 30 or so Restaurants in my area (like 8, 4 star places) and get a job so I'd have a steady income once or twice a week. Actually a Friendly's wanted me the town next door, on Saturday Nights, (My fee was going to be $35.00 / hr as I have a tape Restaurant Magic by Cliff Or Charles Greene lll saif the normal price is $35.00-$40.00. The highest he had heard was $75.00 a hour). Anyway since I've never owned a car I take a cab or bus, and a bus left the latest at 7PM not too late. They also asked if I had a tax number I don't as I'm on disability, which we know IS NOT enough. I know little about money...etc. ANYTIME I work it HAS to be under the table which b-days, and functions are. The Friendly's guy said that I could come in and fill out papers to be put on the payroll. I talked to a guy I know, a very smart one and said that I could have trouble with my benefits, housing, and medical, and I'm on 6 meds.

It KILLED ME but I had to turn them down, plus I wouldn't have a ride home. I've always wanted a manager as I'm not business minded and people here said I'm never get one as 10% of my fee is only maybe $25.00. People here (look up the thread) said they HAVE to make AT LEAST $1,000.00 off you. I think I'm fair. Those prices are not set in stone. I think I put on a great show. If I think they can afford I charge more. For Instance Liberty Mutual, had a Luncheon, for 1 hour at this 100 year old 4 star hotel in my area. Instead on $200.00 for the gig, I charged them $250.00 for a hour of walk around. Was that high enough. I guess I'm afraid of the word no, and rejection, especially if it's because "I'm too high". As I said I know how it is when things are too expensive for me. I've gotten better, and I'll GET better, Ed, (Eddini), C.H.
"Treat Others As You'd Want To Be Treated" - Jesus Christ
Dannydoyle
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Ed, nobody knows better than you what you are worth. Charge what you will.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Eddini_81976
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Exactly, Thanks. My plans are to do my Street Magic, do close-up at a Restaurant, Open a Hypnosis Practice after getting more training, and doing Hypnosis shows. Develop a Mentalism Act. I already do it with my Magic as does Richard Osterlind but I'd like a show totally devoted to it. Those are my professional ambitions, Ed, (Eddini), C.H.
"Treat Others As You'd Want To Be Treated" - Jesus Christ
mindpunisher
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Good luck with your ambitions Ed.
RSD
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Quote:
On 2008-04-02 11:31, Nongard1 wrote:
Wonder how many of those people claiming 10K a gig are selling a $1800 training program....


Several weeks after the orginal posting - that statement hits a homerun! I now find out the person I was speaking to offers a course that is close to $5000 to enroll in. I guess people will say what they have to in order to get a sale.
bobser
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I once asked a performer some years ago how he would reply to someone who asked him why he charged £600 whilst I was only charging £300.
He replied: "I'd say if Bob (that's me) truly believes that his show is only worth £300, then, in all fairness, he's probably correct?"

I simply knew he was right of course.

Bobser
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
drmagic
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Quote:
On 2008-04-25 14:53, bobser wrote:
I once asked a performer some years ago how he would reply to someone who asked him why he charged £600 whilst I was only charging £300.
He replied: "I'd say if Bob (that's me) truly believes that his show is only worth £300, then, in all fairness, he's probably correct?"



BRILLANT ELOQUENCE!
hypnodoc
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I have hired a Hypnotist and Motivational speaker for a corporate event and we paid 5k for a 90 minute show and motivational talk. I spoke with colleagues in the business world and that is about the average for that type of show.
briandavidphillips
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Quote:
On 2008-08-21 20:59, hypnodoc wrote:
I have hired a Hypnotist and Motivational speaker for a corporate event and we paid 5k for a 90 minute show and motivational talk. I spoke with colleagues in the business world and that is about the average for that type of show.


I have the impression the guys who do hypnosis and motivational speaking are marketing themselves as something different than a run-of-the-mill stage hypnotist who is there for entertainment only. They are pitching themselves as Motivational Speakers who Demonstrate the Power of the Mind by using hypnotic effects. This puts them in a different niche than the ones who pitch "only" as "hilarious hypnotic hijinx" . . . they are stage hypnotists but they pitch it with a hook that implies more value.

At least that's my impression of the market.

All the best,
Brian
Hypnosis DVD Courses
http://www.briandavidphillips.com

Brian David Phillips brian@briandavidphillips.com
Hypnotist, Trance Wizard, Intuitionist
Keelung, Taiwan
http://www.briandavidphillips.com
DR STEVE HOSKINS
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I recently had email correspondence with UK stage hypnotist Andrew Newton, http://www.hypnoman.com/ Andrew was offering to give me a full day, in his home, one to one training for UK £1000 (US $1900).
for somebody of his stature this seems quite reasonable. - however I could not justify spending that figure, my "real job" pays me much much more than hypnosis ever could.

in his day Andrew Newton was a legend, nightly filling famous huge venues,
- but, as I am sure mindpunisher will point out, stage hypnosis here in the UK is no longer a big attraction, and the few remaining UK stage hypnotists usualy work pubs/ bars mainly.

Steve
TheTrance-Master
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I recently had a conversation with a Hypnotist who told me doesn't and will absolutely will not do Hypnosis Shows for less than $10,000. Really!
So say it's Tuesday night and you have a choice sit home watching TV re-runs
-OR-
go out 2 towns over and make a cool $2000 -- who wouldn't jump at the chance?
Nice story telling! Gimme a break here!
I also spoke to a wonderful lady he trained, and when I relayed this tale, she fell over laughing with tears in her eyes.
He was speaking of Corporate gigs, been there, done that, I've some that paid and took care of you well, others where you'd swear the employee was paying you from their kid's food and medical budgets.

Like all facets of humanity, we have our story-tellers here too. Unless I am way off base, as a long-standing veteran of Stage Hypnosis, we are all working with budgets, unless one was born wealthy and can blow off business opportunities.

On the flip side, another issue not addressed here are those would undercut anyone's fee in order to get work, whom are destroying the markets in places like the NYC area.

I know personally of a fellow, an affable colleague, who drove over 4 hours, did a show for $300, and slept in his car with winter temperatures, wrapped himself in a blanket, trying not to freeze to death for his troubles, & with todays gas prices and tolls, I'd imagine he broke even. I was 1st offered that show and refused it on budgetary grounds. He later told me he did that show and then shared details when we talked a bit.
So trust your instincts!
Steve in MN
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I have two words: "perceived value"
>It's impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious - Mark Twain
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