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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I am talking from a point of view from a guy who has to look at them and pick from them.
NOT from me trying to sell anything, from guys who send them to me and want to work.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Joshua Lozoff Inner circle Chapel Hill, NC 1332 Posts |
I should add, since it came across wrong, that I don't think mine is as good as Stephen's, but we share the same perspective of focusing on audience reaction as a way to put US out there.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
When exactly did I say that focusing on audience reaction was bad? I am confused.
Please don't put words in my mouth. You can try to focus on whatever you like, if the people you target it at don't get it then what is the point exactly? I am telling you that decisions are made pretty quick about video from people who have to watch them ad nausium. SECONDS, certainly under a minute. So if your face, and you NEVER show up in the video, let alone your voice, I am telling you that you are starting behind the eight ball and that is a bad thing. I would think this self explanitory but many things about video have become the "norm" and are really pretty silly. (NOT ANYTHING SPACIFIC TO THIS THREAD. NOT ANYONE WHO HAS POSTED ANYTHING ON THIS THREAD.) Please re read that last part just so we don't have an unnecessary flame war on our hands. I am not saying anyone here did anything wrong. The idea that you focus on the audience is fine Joshua, but consider this. Who exactly are they trying to hire? An audience or you? Ok we agree they want you. Now lets say that you focus on the audience a lot. (I have not said you shouldn't mind you.) But if you focus on the audience and want them to hire you, when do they get to see you? I don't understand selling an audience to a client. YES you need to be well recieved, but that has many ways to be shown, WHICH ACTUALLY SHOW YOU WORKING.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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kesemd1 Regular user 101 Posts |
Here's Mine!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-uLX5JF-UQ |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-06-18 22:07, Joshua Lozoff wrote: In the first minute and forty seconds he is on the screen for 10 seconds! THE TITLES HAVE MORE TIME! This is well past the time at which most have absolutly decided whether or not to hire you. 3 of those seconds are him walking across the room mind you and 2 of them are half his face in a frame. You are telling me this is a "marketers point of view"? Not from any marketing class I had in college it is not. Then he reads a prediction. Ummm ok gets the reaction to it as well. So a grand total of maybe 20 seconds, GENEROUSLY COUNTED, shows him on camera, and we see him do ONE feat of magic with the bottle and balloon. You are trying to convince people you are a magician. Can't you see that this is not a film school submission? I know what you are sayinig about from a marketing point of view. BUT in marketing you have to consider 2 big things. One, the person being marketed too, and two the PERSON BEING MARKETED TOO! While I understand that is only one big thing, it is SO IMPORTANT I felt it was necessary to mention it twice. You say what a film editor perspective is. WHO CARES? Has a film editer ever hired you for a corporate event? Dude I get the rule of thirds, and all the lighting stuff. I get the film stuff and yes it makes sense. But it seems as if people lose sight of what is important, and this is you are selling YOURSELF. Video needs to be different from a car comercial. Stephen, I am not attacking you here, Joshua made the point using your video and I am sorry as I said public was not the place for that. Again I am sorry. I think the video is good mind you. I think you definatly have potential and I think your audiences love you! Man dude bottle that and sell it because it is pure GOLD! I am only speaking from a perspective of someone who has to wade through the video of hundreds of acts weekly, and what I see and what we and many others in my position tend to do. I wish you the very best and know you will be a great performer (heck are a great performer).
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Joshua Lozoff Inner circle Chapel Hill, NC 1332 Posts |
HI Danny,
Sorry to confuse you. I don't think you and I disagree significantly about what makes good promotional material. I am just suggesting that we can see audience reaction as "selling" a performer as much as a shot of the performer can. I don't think I agree that a shot of the audience would be seen as promotion for the audience. By that logic, one could say, "why do you have that glowing quote from the president of Coca-Cola saying how great your magic is? You're not trying to promote Coca-Cola, you're trying to promote your magic!" Which, of course would be very silly. Testimonials work very well to sell yourself to the client. If you broaden your perspective a little, you could learn to see audience reaction as a testimonial. Once you do that, you might realize that it's great to have quite a bit of it in a video. But again, I bet you and I are just about on the same page. It's just that I've seen a lot of promotional material where you see neither audience reaction or crowd applause, just 3 -5 minutes of the performer doing great tricks. No matter how great the tricks are, I think that's totally ineffective for promotional purposes. Quote: On 2008-06-19 01:12, Dannydoyle wrote: |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Here is the ideal shot.
Performer doing magic, an entire trick, effect, bit or whatever, and an audience reacting to that. This is how the client sees you go over based on what that audience thought. It needs to be communicated that you are a competant performer, and a person who an audience will get behind and like. This is not acomplished with a person doing tricks in a studio, and it is not acomplished by them not being on the screen. Also the "testimonial in the middle of the video" has just about run its course LOL. Testimonials, RARELY sway much of a decision. Have a video with you rocking a room, and no testimonials, it will sell you FAR better than a bunch of cut ins and such with that. You want to show them that you can rock a room, read a mind or whatever, so why not cut to the chase and just SHOW IT? Different video's have different purposes. A video simply for an ad, may be far different from a video in which you are attempting to sell your show to a client. Different goals and all.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Hart Keene Inner circle Eugene, OR 1486 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-06-19 16:05, Dannydoyle wrote: Its funny Danny but Eric Anderson(Full time, BUSY, corporate entertainer and co-author of AH-HA!) says the same thing. At a lecture I attended someone asked about his promo vid. He told us that his promo video is an uncut filming of his entire show! No testamonials, no cuts, no nothing. Keep in mind that he is a very very busy corporate entertainer who often works with the trade show legend himself, Joel Bauer... Not saying that this is the right way or the only way to do it, just that I see where Danny is coming from. My promo is certainly the opposite! It is full of quotes, testamonials, cuts, music, etc.... |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I think that DVD technology allows for a small version, 4-10 minutes, AND the full uncut version on the same DVD. Those are the ones I like to watch.
I am not saynig any is right or wrong, just that you need to remember who is watching the thing. Not a film school teacher. Plus I don't care WHAT your quotes say, I don't care which new cool tune you back it with as a track, I don't care about how slickly it is edited, right where the rubber meets the road they need to see you. Now don't forget also buyers of all sorts have been burned for years now with the slickly edited video. Nothing sells you like showing you rocking a room, even if that room is darkly lit on the video.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
Nice to find a place where there is no shame in blowing one's own horn...
With that, I simply give my 2cents, errrr, two words; "Short Pockets." Enjoy! http://www.vinnymarini.com/download/shortpockets.html
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
"And you there" I liked it right from that point LOL!
Nice coin work by the way. I really liked the card move. Not too much movement. Had I read it and not seen you do it I may have thought it would take too much movement of your LH to get the coin moving. But not at all the case. Very nice work.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
Hey thanks Danny for the nice words here. Glad you liked it. It's no grand production like some of the others here but very simply and effectively done I think. Incidentally, when I do that Coin-Thru-Card effect, the spec never see's a thing, except the coin coming right up through the card that is. Thanks again and I hope you give it a whirl. It's a nice little package of very doable coin work that amazes. -Mb
http://www.vinnymarini.com/download/shortpockets.html
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I hope I didn't imply they saw anything, as I simply liked it a LOT.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
Nahhhhh, not at all man... And again, your good words are much appreciated Danny.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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Stephen Williams Regular user 164 Posts |
Thank you all for your comments – especially you Joshua, I really appreciate your kind words and enjoyed your promotional video. I believe that both you and I have similar tastes, although I didn’t mean to start a heated argument! I do feel however that I may have you and Danny here. I said that we were going to film the Stage show and complete the DVD. The video I have uploaded is the first part that Russ and RSVPMagic.co.uk filmed; the final cut will add a stage promo and the full show, which will by definition show more performance.
Your comments are very valid and a difficult call, which is the source of the big discussion: 'What sells the magician, seeing what he looks like, sounds like or how he performs, or cut to the chase, will the audience, (my guests, clients, employees) enjoy, whatever it is that he does'. I agree with both Joshua and Danny’s views and think that promos just of the artiste performing can sometimes look like nothing more than an ego trip and those with just audience reaction 'could' have been edited from anywhere. My personal point of view is that potential clients will want to see what they are getting, there's no point booking a performer just because of reactions if the performance style doesn't suit their requirement. Likewise, just seeing the performance, whilst showing what the magician can do, doesn't necessarily show that they can get the result, audience appreciation that has the WOW factor. I agree with Danny’s opinion ‘Video needs to be different from a car commercial’ and that is why my first and only choice of whom to film my video had to be Russ Stevens. Not only is Russ is a fantastic editor, he is also a world class magician! All comments are appreciated and I hope the final cut meets the approval of all – I’m sure it won’t . Russ is filming my stage act early July so I will upload it once it has been edited. Thanks again, Ste |
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Chris H Inner circle Melbourne, Australia 1364 Posts |
Here's mine...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=POYhbgI98wM Haven't got much work lately...any tips on how I can make my promo video beter? -- Topher |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I think that the angles could have been better LOL!
What a great find on You Tube man, that made me laugh harder than anything has in a while, thanks man.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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cmnipper Loyal user 205 Posts |
"Take your money", LOLLLLLLLLLL
"Thank you for the hat"
Chad Nipper
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Chris H Inner circle Melbourne, Australia 1364 Posts |
No worries boys!
-- Topher |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Gotta say also it is quite "original" LOL.
Just watched it again and still laughed.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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