|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3 [Next] | ||||||||||
stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
To be truthful, I think this would have been better posted in the Food for Thought forum, because I think the question is relevant to magic.
Perhaps one of the most important things a magician might introduce into the world is ...a sense of uncertainty. That might even be what "magic" as an "art" is all about. (Move this thread!) Jeff |
|||||||||
rossmacrae Inner circle Arlington, Virginia 2475 Posts |
As I age I find I am certain of less and less, and that I can tolerate the uncertainty far more than I did when younger.
When approached with a "this or that, or what?" question worthy of some thought, I usually think a bit and come to the conclusion that the answer is not "either/or" but "both/and". Not to turn this thread into a target for deletion, but learning to live with (and even love) "both/and" might solve a lot of today's problems. |
|||||||||
hou_dini Regular user 103 Posts |
"soitenly"--Curly Howard
|
|||||||||
Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Is it possible to doubt that 1+2=3?
John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
|||||||||
Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
That depends. How did you learn that 1+2 = 3. Through your senses?
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
|
|||||||||
Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
That's what I want to know. I doubt that I learned it through my senses. It seems to me that anyone with a clear conception of "1", "2", "3", "+" and "=" would find it impossible to think other than 1+2=3.
John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
|||||||||
Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
OK.
If you did not learn "1" "2" and "3" by sensation, what did you use to learn it? What is a "clear conception", and how does one obtain it? Again, by sensation? If not, how? (I know these questions may sound strange, at first)
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
|
|||||||||
Doug Higley 1942 - 2022 7152 Posts |
John...when there is a contigent of humanity that confuses Hundreds of Billions of years with mere Thousands how can you ask that?
Higley's Giant Flea Pocket Zibit
|
|||||||||
Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-04-21 21:35, Chessmann wrote: This is a great question. How could I possibly learn about numbers from sensation? Can I abstract "threeness" from the world by experience, with nothing else to guide me? I doubt it. On the other hand, how do I come to know it? Perhaps the elementary truths of arithmetic are simply part of what it means to think at all. But maybe these questions lead the wrong way. Maybe the question of where we get the notion of number isn't even intelligible. It assumes that we go from "no number" to "number" at some point in our lives. But do we? And is it relevant to what I think now? Quote:
What is a "clear conception", and how does one obtain it? Again, by sensation? If not, how? It seems to me that there are some conceptions that make thought possible in the first place. The truths of elementary arithmetic are amongst them. Quote:
All good questions sound strange, at first. I think I know where you're going with this, but I'll be a good boy and wait. John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
|||||||||
S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-04-21 18:24, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: When Bertrand Russell and Alfred North Whitehead wrote Principia Mathematica it took them more than two volumes before they had enough background material to be able to prove the theorem 1 + 1 = 2. |
|||||||||
S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-04-21 22:32, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: Newborn infants know the difference between one and zero: they know when they're being fed and when they're not. |
|||||||||
Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-04-22 01:12, S2000magician wrote: It's a very funny proof; I had to do it as an undergraduate. (Actually 2+2=4 was the question). It has been pointed out (I'll follow my own advice and not name the logician) that the proof amounts to putting the symbols on the page, and then counting them. (If anyone cares, the proof of 2+2=4 comes after assuming that every number has a successor and that the succesor of a+b is the successor of a plus b.) Russell and Whitehead were trying to formalize what everyone already knew about basic arithmetic; PM has nothing to say about where those basic intuitions come from. So, much as I like your response, S2000, it leaves the original intuition untouched. What would it mean for 1+2 not to equal 3? John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
|||||||||
JRob Veteran user Central South Carolina 395 Posts |
Solipsists unite!
"Jim Roberts, AKA: Professor Jay Rob "<br>
The Professor's Facebook Page |
|||||||||
stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-04-22 09:22, JRob wrote: LOL! I need that on a T-shirt. |
|||||||||
S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-04-22 09:14, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: What it would mean depends entirely on the definitions of "1", "2", "3", "+", and "=". It's similar to asking, "What would it mean if A implies B but ~B does not imply ~A?" It would mean that you're not using Aristotelian logic, but maybe not much more than that. Quote:
On 2008-04-22 09:14, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: To clarify, the successor of (a + b) is (the successor of a) + b. |
|||||||||
calamari Elite user The San Francisco Bay Area 429 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-04-22 09:41, stoneunhinged wrote: FYI The International Society of Solipsists is currently accepting applications for new members http://www.olemiss.edu/depts/philosophy/solipst.html
"I came, I saw, SHE conquered." (The original Latin seems to have been garbled.)
|
|||||||||
Josh Riel Inner circle of hell 1995 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-04-22 09:22, JRob wrote: Shouldn't that be: "Solipsist unite"? Since I am the only one of us who really exists, I don't think the plural form makes sense. However I am questioning no one.... So perhaps I have multiple personalities... technically they are united already. edit: I mean: we are united already.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
|
|||||||||
Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Josh is simply beside himself on this one.
John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
|||||||||
Leland Stone Inner circle 1204 Posts |
Didn't Descartes' critics in the Orthodox Church respond to his Cogito with something along the lines of: "Fine, you have set your feet set on stone, but that stone is in a bottomless sea"?
That is, Descartes' reason was trumped by -- and useless without -- presuppositionalism. |
|||||||||
Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Could you be more explicit, Leland? What do you think is wrong with Descartes' observation that by asking the question of what he can doubt, he is unable to doubt that the question has an asker?
John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Certainty (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.04 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |