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Owen Thomas Special user 504 Posts |
I'm learning Bobo's coin book and can not do the backpalm (can't flatten my hand). And backpalming seems the most common sleight for showing hands empty, what other sleights can be used for same effect? And are they in Bobo's?
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Joshua Barrett Inner circle Cincinnati, Ohio 3631 Posts |
The back palm, is not even close to the most common, most people can't do it.
I can only do it with dollar sized coins and only well with palming coins. It's mostly effective on stage, platform or stand up with some reasonable distance. There other things use to show hands empty when they are not. Tenkai pinch, back clip, deep back clip, Kaps, Ramseys, hand washing, change overs, JW grip, edge grip and the list goes on.... There is much more, but I'm assuming you mean empty palm by just saying empty. I should also note there is only limited times in most close up routines where you would ever have to display a falsely empty hand. |
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ixnay66 Inner circle Denver 1525 Posts |
That's a horrible sleight and I've never seen anyone do it where it looked even half natural. Deep Back-Clip or Tenkai/Goshman Pinch are much more practical.
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Joshua Barrett Inner circle Cincinnati, Ohio 3631 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-04-24 16:54, ixnay66 wrote: I wouldn't call it horrable its fun and nice looking done quickly on stage as a quick production it can also be used with moves like the eurka pass which I think its a pretty cool move, again more of a platform type of situtation not close up |
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Owen Thomas Special user 504 Posts |
Ok can those sleights be use to show your hand front and back? And are they in Bobo's?
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Joshua Barrett Inner circle Cincinnati, Ohio 3631 Posts |
Front and back, well sorta to do that you would have to change grips
with back palm its accomplished with a very difficult continuous front and back palm. the problem is in all the years iv done coin magic close up, iv never once had to do that. so I have to ask why and the world would you need to show front and back. if you say" not here and not here" showign front and back you might as well just say " I have the coins hidden somewhere" |
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
Owen, as mentioned here, use the Tenkai Pinch instead of Back-palming. The TKP is much easier and more flexible and in more modern usage. I think the TKP is taught in the hardcover/longer version of Bobo's, but you might have the paperback and I don't think it's in there. But reach out to the Godfather Vinny here, he might have a vid of how to do and use the Tenkai Pinch. There are also several dvds that teach it but no need to spend $40 bucks just to learn it. Though if you get Sankey's Revolutinary Coin Magic dvd, he not only teaches it but also shows you many great routines using it including his world famous Mr. Clean Coins Across routine.
The TKP takes some practice but very doable and instantly amazing once you get it down. Oh, and to your question, yes the TKP can be used to show your hand front and back for the most part, though it's mostly used to show your hand palm up as empty. It's certainly one of the great sleights and used practically by everyone for one thing or another.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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The Amazing Noobini Inner circle Oslo, Norway 1658 Posts |
I surprised myself by suddenly being able to do the back palm the other day with a half dollar. I've never gotten the two middle fingers underneath and over before without the coin slipping off my tiny narrow pinkey. The excitement was short lived however as the back palmed coin puts two fingers a bit out of alignment whereas the other pinches I know only slightly puts one finger out of alignment. Hope that explanation makes sense.
What I'm trying to say is that I agree that there are more useful back holdouts than the back palm. The back pinch between your first and second finger is also great for showing both sides empty. Whatever that pinch is called. BTW all really really cool teenagers in Norway are able to back palm a round flat box of dipping tobacco which is almost as common as cigarettes here. (I myself was sadly never that cool a teenager). It is a sleight that impressed me many years before I ever saw coin magic.
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell) "Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry) |
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Chris SD Special user 737 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-04-24 17:50, The Amazing Noobini wrote: "Remember kids; smoking is not cool... But smokers are cool." |
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Wes65 Inner circle I've said very little in 1219 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-04-24 16:54, ixnay66 wrote: The backpalm can be a good sleight....however, you have to know it's limitations. With that said, it is not a good sleight for showing the hand empty front and back.
Wes
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Joshua Barrett Inner circle Cincinnati, Ohio 3631 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-04-24 20:15, Wes65 wrote: I agree with that assesment |
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Jaz Inner circle NJ, U.S. 6111 Posts |
All the sleights can be used to show both sides of the hand empty.
Not all in the same way but you can do it if need be. |
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qureyoon Loyal user Singapore 275 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-04-24 16:54, ixnay66 wrote: It's not a horrible sleight ! "King of Koins" do this flawlessly ! He can do it more than 4 in backpalm. Without it, the "Miser's Dreams" wouldn't have born. If you have talent, practice the "Continuous Front and Back Hand Palm" for 15 years like the "King of Koins" You'll be legend |
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iceblade Loyal user 254 Posts |
For me, the back palm is a coin sleight simply not worth practicing. The reasons are:
1) Size of the coin a VERY limiting factor (For me a dollar coin is too large a half dollar too small. I don't even need to mention euro coins (and I live in Europe)) 2) Two fingers mis-aligned I can say however that the back palm is pretty useles for closeup. The TP or the other back clips are very good substitutes. Having said that, I'm not a fan of Down's work. |
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Joshua Barrett Inner circle Cincinnati, Ohio 3631 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-04-25 22:14, iceblade wrote: I think that's fair to say. a lot of guys don;t do coins on stage any more. I like to throw a little back palm in for fun on my stand up shows. the finger alignment does nto matter so much in this setting. remeber your not standing there is some ackward pose. the hand comes up apparently empty then a coin is produced, or some vice version for a vanish. much like the rqamsey sublty if you stand there hold a pose, it becomes more then obvious |
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iceblade Loyal user 254 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-04-25 22:55, Joshua Barrett wrote: Interesting.. I think I agree |
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
I like dollar coins but have found that half dollars work best for me. I can't back palm a half but really don't need to. I can back palm a silver dollar pretty well actually but never seem to ever need to. Halves and coins of that size work well for the stuff I like doing. They can be seen well enough and also hidden in the work pretty good up close. To me they are perfect. I also like using the half dollar-size American penny I got with my Dishonest Abe effect. That coin is actually a little bigger than a half dollar and to me handles a little better but works best with using a half dollar coin. Also, as per this string, it works well when using the Tenkai Pinch, which is really all you need nowadays to show your hands empty and or load an extra coin. I actually don't know of anyone that uses the back palm much.
*But Owen, I did find a clip where a guy teaches the move. I don't particularly like his magic style of doing things but he pretty much shows the basic mechanics and use, with some explanation on it. A decent enough visual reference I suppose. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVf2kRu2JzQ
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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The Amazing Noobini Inner circle Oslo, Norway 1658 Posts |
Uff, now I feel I need to learn it even though I don't like it so much since it is thoroughly exposed on YouTube and Expert Village. If not I'm sure someone at some point will be saying "I'm no magician but at least I can do this... but of course, any idiot can do the back palm. Why don't you show us yours!"
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell) "Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry) |
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Douglas.M Elite user 465 Posts |
Yes Downs used this sleight, back in the day. He was the King of Coins in the 1930's... on stage.
But coin magic has evolved a lot since then. David Roth popularized close up coin magic, and helped lay the foundations for true modern coin magic. You want to take from Bobo's what works for your performing situations. If you are doing close-up magic, I would take the advice of previous posters and use the Tenki/Goshman pinch, or study the work of Paul Cummings for his great use of the Deep Back Clip. Also, you don't always need those moves to show your hands empty. Sometimes the suggestion of emptyness, using transfers from Kaps Subtlety to Ramsay Subtlety, and/ or JW grip can work wonders. You would be amazed how effective and powerful subtle transfers from Classic Palm to Finger Palm can look to the audience. Bobo's is a great reference book, but my advice to you if you are interested in close up coin magic is to start with David Roth. Douglas M. |
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Joshua Barrett Inner circle Cincinnati, Ohio 3631 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-04-26 17:21, The Amazing Noobini wrote: I wouldn't worry much about that stuff. example. a friend of mine learned to back palm cards in jail. I'm no card manipulator but at one time I could do it pretty ok. even thought he knew how to back palm a card he didn't know how I made it vanish and showed both sides of the hand. lay people just don;t think like magicians even if they know the secret |
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