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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » New to magic? » » Gambling slights (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

blackdeck
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Baltimore, MD
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What dvd do you suggest to learn things like bottom deal second deal ect.

and 1-5 how hard is it to learn these slights
erlandish
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Vancouver, Canada
1254 Posts

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If you want to learn a gambling sleight in the context of actually gambling, it's a 5. 4 if you've got confederates, maybe. The key is that nothing you do looks out of place, and you don't have any theatrical context that allows you to deviate from that. You've got to be able to false deal when people are looking at you expecting a false deal, and so on.
The Jester Extraordinaire : bderland.com
Ye Olde Magick Blogge : erlandish.blogspot.com
abc
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South African in Taiwan
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If you make the pass a 3 in your rating then a second deal if you are able to necktie the deck would be a 1 but if you are not able to then a 3. A bottom deal is a 4.
As for DVD's I am not sure of what level you are on so it would be difficult to suggest something. DVD's tend to teach tricks that use the sleights and not always the sleight by itself. I learned it out of Expert at the card table and Expert card technique and I do think if you have a rough idea of what the sleight should look like you can learn it very well out of a book.
spatlind
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still moving
863 Posts

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You could try Gambling Moves with Cards - Simon Lovell
Actions lie louder than words - Carolyn Wells

I believe in God, only I spell it Nature - Frank Lloyd Wright.
loyaleagle
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Montgomery Village, Maryland
567 Posts

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I have had a lot of trouble trying to follow the directions of Card Sharp, Heckler and Show Off by Brian Tudor. I would not recommend them for anyone trying to learn the gambler's craft because they range from hard to unbelievably hard. They are probably better to refine some skills that you already possess.

Sorry I didn't have any suggestions, but I just wanted to mention avoiding Tudor's stuff.
Visit my blog: ScienceIsMagic.com
Keirua
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Culling cards and stacking them, in short handed games is not very hard.
The only thing to know in order to stack a card 4th from top... is to drop 3 card on her. That's it, you know everything on stacking.
The difficulty is that you have to do that during a rifle shuffle (for example, yet you can also do it with an overhand shuffle), and in order not to get attention you will have to do it like a normal riffle shuffle, that is, without slowing down at the end of the shuffle in order to count the cards...
You should also be able to do it without looking at the cards. If it's easy in a 4 player game, it's gets harder when the number of players increases.

The great advantage is that once you have finished shuffling, it's done. If you stacked you hand and a flop, you have already won the pot. You only need to play it in order to maximize the bets, and earn a big pot. If you don't deal yourself a fullhouse every time you deal, you will never be noticed. Trips most of the time are enough to win in a short handed texas holdem game.
In my opinion, this is easier than 2nd dealing or bottom dealing. The people I play with often discuss while someone is shuffling cards, thus stacking is easy to do.
However as said above, when you deal everybody is looking a you.

People say you shouldn't do a move more than one or two times in a game, I disagree. It's probably true (but I'm not even sure, correctly done, it looks normal) if you mean to do something dangerous like bottom or 2nd deal, but staking is quite different. Done smoothly, nobody while ever notice what you are doing, since in a friendly game they do not expect you to do something here. This require however a bit of pratice. If your players cut the deck, you also have to reverse the cut.

What I say is probably different if you want to play in a private game with money involved, but if you want to do it for fun with friends like me there is no risk of being caught, even if your stacking is not perfect.
Loopback
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Lincoln, Nebraska
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Quote:
On 2008-05-02 11:26, Keirua wrote:
Culling cards and stacking them, in short handed games is not very hard.
The only thing to know in order to stack a card 4th from top... is to drop 3 card on her. That's it, you know everything on stacking.
The difficulty is that you have to do that during a rifle shuffle (for example, yet you can also do it with an overhand shuffle), and in order not to get attention you will have to do it like a normal riffle shuffle, that is, without slowing down at the end of the shuffle in order to count the cards...
You should also be able to do it without looking at the cards. If it's easy in a 4 player game, it's gets harder when the number of players increases.

The great advantage is that once you have finished shuffling, it's done. If you stacked you hand and a flop, you have already won the pot. You only need to play it in order to maximize the bets, and earn a big pot. If you don't deal yourself a fullhouse every time you deal, you will never be noticed. Trips most of the time are enough to win in a short handed texas holdem game.
In my opinion, this is easier than 2nd dealing or bottom dealing. The people I play with often discuss while someone is shuffling cards, thus stacking is easy to do.
However as said above, when you deal everybody is looking a you.

People say you shouldn't do a move more than one or two times in a game, I disagree. It's probably true (but I'm not even sure, correctly done, it looks normal) if you mean to do something dangerous like bottom or 2nd deal, but staking is quite different. Done smoothly, nobody while ever notice what you are doing, since in a friendly game they do not expect you to do something here. This require however a bit of pratice. If your players cut the deck, you also have to reverse the cut.

What I say is probably different if you want to play in a private game with money involved, but if you want to do it for fun with friends like me there is no risk of being caught, even if your stacking is not perfect.


No disrespect to you but I have to disagree with almost everything you are stating.

First you should never cheat at cards. It is extremely hard to not get caught at this. Its wrong, and your liable to go home with a few broken fingers if you do this in the wrong company.

If I attempted an overhand shuffle in my poker game I would get laughed out of the place.

The player to the dealers right should always cut the cards. This is the last action before the cards are dealt. You are asking for it if you start futzing with
the cards after the cut.

The only place for this would be a gambling demonstration.
Keirua
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Then I will quote what I said in the last paragraph:
"What I say is probably different if you want to play in a private game with money involved, but if you want to do it for fun with friends like me there is no risk of being caught, even if your stacking is not perfect."

What I said apply in a game for fun with your friends. When I play poker with my friends, there is almost no money involved. Only a few euros: the goal of this game is to have some great nights with friends, chatting around a table. The winner then have to organise the next game, and with the money buy a few pizza and a pack of beer. So I do not cheat for money (i would earn about 2 or 3 euros for a 4hours night after buying pizza and beer, great), and I do not like this idea. People who are tempted to do so should keep in mind that it's a steal, and even if it does not look like it because you are not taking the wallet out of any random guy's pocket, it is.
And if you think your friends will break your arms in a game where there is no money involved, then I strongly advise you to get new friends Smile

But then if those sleights are useless, why bother learning them ? They of course have hundreds of applications in card magic (gambling demo are the most obvious), and if I also apply them at a card table that's because I like the sort of adrenaline that you get when you are doing something you are not supposed to, as when you are doing a card trick.

What's more, in France, overhand shuffle is the usual way to shuffle cards. Some people can't even do it. Some people simply are amazed to see an in the hand riffle shuffle. So if, like me, you live in Europe, your friends won't laugh at you if you overhand shuffle the deck.
As for cutting the deck, I've played in games where it was done, but most often with my friends we skip this step.
Loopback
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Lincoln, Nebraska
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Wow what wonderful friends you must have to let you cheat like that.
Brad Burt
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Hello:

Some years ago...and recently converted to DVD....I made a video called Gambling Sleights for Magicians. The reason I did so was that especially in the case of the Second Deal these sleights offer some real world tools for use in magic.

But....most magicians will never use them in exactly the same manner as someone would who is cheating. For instance when dealing seconds or bottoms the dealer in a game will be tossing out the cards to the various players. A magician would most likely be dealing the cards face down in a pile before himself and even in the event that the magician would be demoing a poker deal for instance the deal need not be as perfect as needed in a real game of poker. It need ONLY fool the watchers, etc. and provide entertainment.

I have been doing and teaching the second and bottom deals for over 30 years and as regards your question on level of difficulty rated 1-5 I can safely say that if you really want to be able to do them well you should think in terms of 5+. In virtually every case these sleights will take you some 'real' time and work to master. (Note: I suggest the Second Deal as the most practical and useful.) That said, I heartily endorse their use and usefulness. I have never regretted the time spent on the Second Deal. It's uses and substitutions are legion. Think, Top Change, Double Lift, etc. Using the Second Deal instead of alternatives the Dunbury Delusion is perhaps one of the finest card effects ever devised.

So....whether you use my video or any of several others go for it. As noted above I have found the Second to be a particularly powerful technique over the years. All best,
Brad Burt
JHNelson
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Portland, Oregon
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If you're interested in gambling sleights you need to get the book "Expert at the card table". Once you have a modicum of skill with the pasteboards I would recomend the DVD's "Fast Company" by Damian Nieman and "Weapons of the Cardshark" by Jeff Wessmiller. Weapons will teach the gambling sleight of hand, but no effects. Fast company has some effects you can do. Once your comfortable look up Darwin Ortiz's books. He's got great gambling effects.
dobber
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Quote:


What I said apply in a game for fun with your friends. When I play poker with my friends, there is almost no money involved. Only a few euros:


'Almost no money involved' means the same as 'money involved', so you are cheating your friends at cards. JMO.
Rob
JHNelson
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Portland, Oregon
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I heard a gambler tell me one time "There are no friends are the card table". I assume he meant that when money is on the table, friendship is put aside. I don't want to debate the morality of hustling, but to cheat a game that has "almost no money involved" is like saying you're "a little bit pregnant". If there is any money involved and you're cheating, you're friends may not be friends for long. If you want to show off your chops, then show them a magic trick. They wont let you deal anymore after that though. Just my 2 cents.
Alewishus
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parts unknown
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Good lord, it's all so esoteric!

ummmmmmmm, no it's not.

Don't we all cheat at times?

Get on with it or get out.
Sack subs, ok Ross?
We miss you asper.
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