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ftlum Special user Roseville, CA 730 Posts |
Hi All.
I was contemplating adding mildly negative comments about an item that was widely praised here on the Café. But, as I'd certainly be in the minority, I have hesitated. After all, you open yourself up to getting flammed, make the creator sad (I'm sure he put in a lot of work), and like your mother says, 'If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.' My negative comment, BTW, (without naming the product) is that it is "clever" in method. The effect (on the demo) seemed a little cluttered, however given the high praise it got on the Café, I bought it anyway. I was a bit disappointed, though. In part, because I had correctly guessed the method, but also becuase I didn't think the effect that was created warrented the glowing reviews here (which in turn led me to buy it-- guess I should have trusted my first instinct). I think that-- as was discussed in Maximum Entertainment-- magicians tend to love cleverness of method, oftentimes at the expense of effect. I certainly love clever methods too. My critique is essentially that I think the product would be a good one to fool your magic buddies with, but to me, it didn't deserve the rave reviews garnered here. And my question is-- have you ever posted a negative review and if so, what were the consequences? Were you flammed? Black listed? Would you do it again? - Frank |
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erlandish Inner circle Vancouver, Canada 1254 Posts |
If your criticisms are coming from the right place and you can back up your opinion, then the worst you should see is disagreement.
I see where you're coming from, though. I've posted negative reviews on my blog before. Like yourself, after a while I worried about alienating the creators of the work (especially since I want to be a magician more than I want to be a magic reviewer), and as such I've pretty much given up on reviews in general. The downside of this is, of course, there's less honest public discussion about a product. That's ok by me. I'm more interested in the discussions (negative AND positive) that happen outside of the limelight. |
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KMan1564 Loyal user 228 Posts |
Everyone is entitled to his opinion, so I think you should post your constructive criticism about the effect so others can benefit from it. Maybe others share your view and won't shell out unnecessary money on a trick they won't use. FWIW, the majority of effects I perform are very simplistic in nature and wouldn't fall in the "clever" category.
New Mentalism and eMagic Supply Exclusives
http://emagicsupply.com/126.html |
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Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts |
I have posted negative reviews and have had folks agree and others not agree. Some would PM me telling me I didn't know what I was talking about, etc.
And...the same has happened with postiive reviews. lol. You can't get black listed here for a review. But saying "this sucks" and not saying why is not appropriate or fair. Saying why you think it's bad open up a dialog and from that soem folks will agree while others may have a handling that makes it a winner.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
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Futureal Inner circle 1695 Posts |
I most likely won't argue with you - I think almost everything is crap
Come on you've got to tell us what product you're thinking of ... |
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sethb Inner circle The Jersey Shore 2719 Posts |
I see absolutely nothing wrong with posting an honest negative review, as long as it's backed up with facts to support it.
Let's face it, in the never-ending quest to offer something "new," a fair number of so-called magical effects are released that probably should have stayed in the bureau drawer. No one benefits from the sale of this stuff. Besides, without honest constructive criticism, nobody ever improves. SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC |
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Robert M Inner circle 2482 Posts |
I always think twice about posting a negative review because I don't want to hurt the sales of the product. But, occasionally, I do post negative reviews when I feel it's warranted. There are so many positive reviews posted on TMC, sometimes it's hard to tell if what you're reading is an honest endorsement or just a favor to the creator from his friends.
Robert |
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Jeff Corn Inner circle Las Vegas 1190 Posts |
My feeling is that a negative review that is made without the bias of a personal conflict will be much more helpful than a positive review. Most people that see an ad for something they want will buy it with or without the review. I bought the MM Erdnase set without a review and love it, even if parts aren't true to the book. That negative review may stop someone that's on the fence about the product from wasting their money and then rejecting the authors works in the future. If the first thing I saw from Andrew Mayne affected my overall opinion of his work, I'd have missed some really clever material lately. That's just one example.
Yes, that is my real name. Yes, I am a real person. No, you probably won't agree with me.
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silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts |
It's totally appropriate to post honest reviews of items (positive OR negative) here on the Café.........it's actually one of the Café's strongest suits.
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The Mac Inner circle 1982 Posts |
Also be aware of the "friends of creators" posting negative things about competing products. If you're not an inventor or releasing stuff then you will be surprised the amount of politicking that goes on.
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silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts |
Politics are but a fact of life.
Be equally as cautious of the the Café types who post rave reviews of products released by their favorite manufacturers regardless of WHAT the quality of the product might be. In some cases, the fact that a "new" effect came from "XXXXXXX Magic" is enough to get at least a dozen folks raving on for pages and pages about a brilliant effect not yet released to the marketplace. As always, buyer beware.......but an honest review on the Café can help. |
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Cohiba Special user Michigan 749 Posts |
Good question Frank.
I think in general, we are apt to get worked up way too fast. As soon as a negative review, negative opinion, or criticism (of a person or other) is posted, flames ensue (have you noticed that it's often mockery about whatever they can come up with?). And I'm not talking about criticism for criticism's sake (someone being an idiot), but about honest opinions (such as yours above), that are trying to better magic. Usually when people get that worked up, it's because they are close-minded. This generally only hurts themselves. I for one appreciate to hear both sides of the story. It will help me A - learn and/or B - help me determine if I want to buy the product. |
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The Mac Inner circle 1982 Posts |
Sometimes the reviews needs a review
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JohnEBlaze New user Maitland, FL 66 Posts |
Maybe it's just me but I see far more negative reviews about products on here than positive. Also, it seems that if someone trashes a product, there are instantly four members chiming in with "Thanks SN, I'll save my money." and really, who can blame them, there IS a lot of crap out there.
I personally just wish there was a place that only let me know what everyone thought was GOOD instead of why something is BAD. |
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mcvicarthetrickster Regular user St. Louis, MO 116 Posts |
I think it's important to give a review even if it's negative to help others that are interested in the effect. Doesn't even need to be considered a negative review, if you find that an effect has flaw when working in a particular situation such as a restaurant then it's important for people who work in restaurants to know doesn't mean the effect wouldn't be good in a tradeshow environment, it's just helpful criticism. I know I could've use some helpful criticism on some of the stuff that I bought and will never use.
Josh |
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Cameron Francis V.I.P. 7025 Posts |
One's man garbage is another man's gold. Nothing wrong with posting either a positive or negative review. It's very helpful.
What I can't stand, however, are people who write bad reviews and give no justification for why the product is bad. There are some out there who trash products simply because they like being contrary and that drives me up the wall. At the same time, I also don't like it when people praise stuff and don't give a reason why they like it. If you like or dislike something and you're taking the time to post about it, at least give a reason for your opinion. After all, the purpose of this site is to help each other.
MOMENT'S NOTICE LIVE 3 - Six impromptu card tricks! Out now! http://cameronfrancismagic.com/moments-notice-live-3.html
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erlandish Inner circle Vancouver, Canada 1254 Posts |
Here's one thing you might want to consider. We don't need good reviews or bad reviews as much as we need thoughtful reviews.
Here's an exercise: Take a book that you think is perfect. Try to think of one person who would have a very good reason for not liking the book. And I don't mean snide comments like "If you're not willing to practice and work hard then this book is not for you." Seriously try to find that person, see if you can empathize with that point of view, and then put it in the review. Doing the opposite for an apparently lousy product is also a good challenge. The mark of a good reviewer is one who doesn't use praise or criticism as much as he imparts an understanding of what the product's all about. The best reviews are often so good that they're worth reading even if you already have the product. |
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michaelmystic2003 Inner circle 3062 Posts |
I'd love to see more negative reviews around here... they are very fun to read, especially in Magic Magazine.
Learn more about my upcoming book of close up magic and theory SYNTHESIS & SECRETS: A Magic Book in Four Acts: https://www.michaelkrasworks.com/synthesis-secrets
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kissdadookie Inner circle 4275 Posts |
I just want to know what the review is on! Please review it already I posted a totally negative review for Pyro Pentrator (the most overpriced POS I've ever seen... ok, so I have had other overpriced POS's but this one takes the cake when they tried to justify the darn thing), I'm still here and well, so you should totally post the review up! (maybe you did but I didn't read it, so a link would be nice)
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ftlum Special user Roseville, CA 730 Posts |
Although I'm still debating about associating my comments to the product's name right now, I did find this discussion interesting and helpful. I also don't see my commentary so much as a poke against a particular product as a commentary about how we in the Café perceive value in a product.
I love erlandish's idea about taking a bad product and seeing the good in it and vice versa. Thoughtful reviews should include both the good and bad points to an item. I find those the most credible, personally. - Frank |
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