Project much?

Bottom line....as far as what I believe and what I think Danny might be trying to say is this:

There are people on this forum who exaggerate, inflate, lie, etc about the price they get for shows, the amount of shows they do, etc. Some of them have even been 'busted' right here in this forum. Now just having people outright lie is bad, BUT as I believe Dean is trying to say....we shouldn't be focused on that and just focus on our own success. TRUE...very true.

HOWEVER, when someone is selling a system, program, for bettering your life, success course, make more money with magic, etc ...and they inflate, exaggerate, lie, etc in order to position themselves in the marketing to magicians market...well that is quite deceitful. So can someone purchase this person's course and make it work for them, even though they lied in order to sell it?...sure it is possible. But the end doesn't justify the means.

Let's get back to truth in advertising.

Kevin

Great post, Kevin.

- Donald

Yeppers...

= Lying is bad… duh.
= Assuming everyone is lying is bad… duh.

How about the facts and focusing on what works? I say 'duh', not everyone agrees. (Which is fine.)

Good stuff Kevin.

For some reason this thread is starting to make me chuckle a little. Reminds me of Seasame Street, "One of these things is not like the other."

Robert

This thread brought to you by the letter AB&C and the Numbers 12&3...

Group hug

Getting back to the subject of prices Randy charges (or others for that matter) for courses etc etc.

If I may be permitted to adapt an old saying, but it seems in magic, as in many other fields, "Those that can - DO, those that can't, sell overpriced courses."

LOL (Damn, and I was hoping of writing and selling my very own course very soon...been busted before I even put pen to paper!)

My experience with magic info product marketers, is that most are speaking from their own real-world experience. There are a few exceptions, but I don't think (nor assume) it's the norm.

I also give the same benefit of the doubt to those who post here with advice, that they are speaking from their own real-world experience.

Here's a great question: How do YOU decide who you trust, and who you don't?

- Donald

In my experience having to give someone the "benifit of the doubt" is already a red flag.

Donald -
Today, almost everyone has some sort of trail if they are working. Could be articles in newsletters, mentions in meeting notes, calendar listings, reviews, schedules, client web sites, etc.

If they are selling a course, you should be able to find a substantial trail of performances in that market using search engines and well chosen search terms. If you can't, I'd question it. Even the most guarded can't avoid all mention, especially for high profile public-oriented markets.

If all that comes up in the first ten pages of a search are marketing sites that hype their courses - red flag... my opinion.
Tom

BTW - I am not saying it is okay to investigate other performers! I am saying it is common sense to protect yourself by investigating a claimed expert status.

Hi Tom -

Thanks for your thoughts. And I agree, success leaves a trail.

My problem is more with the double-standard.

The double-standard I speak of, is knocking down those who sell info products (as a whole group in general terms... mostly without even buying any of the products they are quick to doubt), yet expecting themselves to be taken as authorities / experts in their free advice they give out on the forums.

I guess the amount of cynicism turns me off.

- Donald

P.S. I also don't go for politicians that bad-mouth the competition.

Free or paid - if someone wants you to follow their advice, never do so blindly.

I have an uncle in New York City. His name is Morty and he owns a coffee shop.

One day I visited uncle Morty's coffee shop. On the wall hung a menu, listing "Coffee - $1,000,000 per cup"

I said: "Uncle Morty.....at $1,000,000 per cup, you can't expect to sell too many cups of coffee."

Uncle Morty replied: "At $1,000,000 per cup, I only have to sell one to have a really good day!"

Donald you really do project a LOT buddy.

So now every product must be bought? Nice marketing, "You can't tell me my idea is bad unless you buy it first". Nice. LOL.

I think the "prevailing thought" which you choose to call cynical by the way, is that if a guy is SO huge with success, how does he have the time, energy and need to put out a course for thousands of dollars? (those who can't do, teach, is what was hinted at earlier by another)

I am not saying it is right or wrong, I am saying it was just said earlier on the thread and it seems as if a lot of people agree. Lets be honest FAR more money can be made from the show of a good performer, than from telling people how to sell a show.

You are of the other school. "Buy everything, everything has merit, no matter what the idea is". Fine, nobody begrudges you that position. You are entitled to that position, but don't call others cynical for having another.

I have never said to "buy everything", nor will I ever say that.

I am very careful about what I buy, and there are products I won't buy.

I also won't tell people to buy a product because it's got a money-back guarantee. There are products I won't buy, even if they have a money-back guarantee. I look for a good fit, before jumping in. I'm a very careful consumer, and I don't want to waste my time.

I also don't go into a transaction with the intention of taking advantage of the other person. So I won't buy a product with the intention of returning it. Although the fact that it is backed with a satisfaction guarantee is a nice piece of sales influence, it's a very tiny piece of influence to me personally.

- Donald

P.S. What course priced at "thousands of dollars"? I'm curious. I've seen that number mentioned in a couple of posts now, by various people.

I'm writing that one...It's called "How to make Thousands Of Dollars Selling a Magician's Marketing Course."

Anyone interested in buying a copy so I have some experience to reference?

Thank you to those of you who reminded me that pricing is largely a matter of knowing you are worth it. The first time I raised my rates my bookings went up. I've had some steady clients who got special rates, but they haven't booked lately, and those special deals are over. They don't even pay on time. The low end of my price scale (birthday parties) was in line for my market, but everything else was way to low, even walkaround, and I was doing a lot of charity, but that's another post (already posted).

My township has its own state-of-the-art theater which it underwrites to the tune of $250,000 per year. Then a local undertaker who likes magic brings in big names. But no matter the act I knew about, musician, or one of the most famous mentalists ever, they don't market. No one outside our community knows these big names are coming. So they sell about 100 tickets, then do a "drawing" and basically give every entry tickets, filling the other 300 seats for free!

I worked for the recreation department for a while and got to see this on the inside, and I know their other expenditures for entertainment. I raised my rates before they call again. If they don't the new clients should be paying me what I'm worth anyway. And still the new rates don't quite reflect that.

So I think the conclusion is that Randy has possibly received that amount at one time or another but it certainly isn't his lowest fee to work.

Is that a safe assumption?

Jay