I recently got into a debate with a friend I normally agree with on ethical questions. I'm interested to know what your opinion of this type of performer is.

A particular act I have seen has got a great mentalism show. He combines mind reading and PK into an entertaining and believable act that audience's come away believing that the performer has paranormal skills without the performer ever claiming that he does.

Here are few quotes from the press

"I am in no doubt that what I witness was genuine, real and completely amazing!"
"X has the ability to truly read minds."
"Unlike most psychics X can clearly accurately read minds."

Children and their parents come away believing that it is possible to bend spoons with the power of the mind. Even his old school friends have believe he has this 'power'.

He uses a lot of double speak and pseudo scientific jargon in his patter that makes little sense but that implies, if you read it very carefully that he has no supernatural powers. However, his performance is so good that people believe in him. He does nothing to dissuade them of this and has been featured in new age magazines next to advertisements for crystals.

Do you think it is ethical for him to create the illusion of having actual paranormal abilities that he does not have?

Does the fact he never claims he has the powers let him off the hook?

"Let him off the hook"...what are you suggesting that we should do?

who are we to judge?, lest we judge ourselves....

Seems to me that he did his job, and did it well. My opinion might be skewed, but I've got a wide tolerance for that sort of thing -- if a guy claims real psychic ability or whatever but restricts that claim to the theatrical context, he's not done anything different from Tom Cruise pretending to be a secret agent. The fact that he leaves any sort of hint at all that he's not a real psychic is doing more than enough, as far as I'm concerned.

If he starts offering psychic services after the show to help you find a lost loved one, well, then there's something a bit more sketchy going on.

Erlandish,

very well put...thank you.

Doctor Revil
Who are we to judge? We are the people who know he is faking his abilities.

Erlandish
Of course, when Tom Cruise pretends to be a secret agent we KNOW he is pretending. When a performer pretends to have abilities they do not have, the audience is not privy to that fact and must reach the conclusion through deduction.

What if I produced a demonstration in which I showed a car can run on effectively on water? Throughout the show, I 'hint' that the demonstration is faked. I do not sell anything or recommend anyone buy anything but I create a strong enough illusion that large portions of the audience believe the technology exists leading them to visit such websites as http://www.waterpoweredcar.com and WaterFuelConversion.Net .

Well, it's not uncommon for audiences to have trouble disassociating an actor from his character in a movie. People were pretty shocked to learn Rock Hudson was gay, for instance.

I think audiences have to apply some common sense. If the guy were a real psychic, he'd probably be finding safer and more lucrative applications for his talents other than bragging about it in a show. Or, if he wanted to bring the world knowledge of his gift, he'd do James Randi's tests because he COULD do them, and he'd be promoting the idea of the supernatural outside the theatrical context, because in that case he'd be correct -- by being a real psychic he IS embodied proof of the paranormal.

But it's in a show. Come on, it's entertainment. Should we be mad that professional wrestlers pretend to be a lot more hurt in the ring than they really are? Of course not, because we want to play along. Mystery entertainers offer just that, mystery. Do we really want to take that away from our shows?

'The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mystery' - Einstein

The entertainer's job is to entertain, the audience's job is to enjoy the show and make their own minds up about the context in which the performance is offered - we are not arbiters of moral standards.

Maybe there is genuine paranormal ability in the universe, and maybe there isn't -to theatrically celebrate the possibility fills me with more joy than sterilising what we do for fear of crossing an ethical barrier - we are never, in my opinion, responsible for another's beliefs - we can shape and influence them certainly but we cannot make someone believe anything - it's an inside job! The believers will be convinced despite a denial, the cynics will doubt no matter how convincing your performance!

I seek to do no harm, to allow space for the moment of astonishment and to leave my audience with a theatrically intact performance - I make no claims, offer no disclaimers and I sleep fine!

Actors are known to be playing make believe. It is not clear that this entertainer is. While we may confuse vague ideas of personality and character between the actor and his character, only a delusion person would believe that the character is a REAL person. However, this performer is seeking to create an ACTUAL belief in a power he does not have. Magicians and actors create believable illusions that the audience know to be fake. They make a choice to accept something they know to be a lie as real.

As for expecting audiences to use common sense and figure out he is fraud, it is unfair to dedicate hours of time to create the perfect illusion of psychic powers and then blame the audience when they believe in them.

We don't get mad with professional wrestlers because we know they faking it. Are we mad when real athletes throw a race or cheat? You bet we are! We go to those events because we are being promised something real.

Yes- this is entertainment. However, it has an effect outside of the stage. To suggest that it's 'just entertainment' is to underestimate the power of performance and art.

Andy - impossible things may exist somewhere and the idea of art is to allow us to imagine a world in the which they exist. Remember Andy, you do make claims. Every effect you perform, every statement you make and every idea you share expresses a claim about the world.

Should we all lie and cheat and misrepresent the world in which we live in and the expect people to see through the BS to the truth?

What I have seen so far on this thread is a real failure of people to take responsibility for the lies they tell.

It scares the hell out of me.

All good art has an effect outside it's venue.

Basicaly you have a bias against this form of artistic presentation.

I see nothing wrong with that.
We all have our likes and disslikes.

-Jim

Why do you believe that if you shape and influence someone's beliefs, you have no responsibility for what they believe? We CAN absolutely cause someone to believe something that is not true.

Jim: I don't think that Nicholas has a bias against Mentalism as an art form. He seems to be concerned about those that take Mentalism outside of the realm of entertainment. In your channeling perfomance on Phenomenon, I thought that you did a good job of letting people know it was entertainment.

It's the performer's responsibility to establish the context, not the audience's. It's possible, with creativity and skill, to leave the mystery intact and make the entertainment context clear.

- entity

I agree with you Jim.
Based on the description of the idea in the first post, this is not exactly about people who take Mentalism outside the arena of entertainment. Re read it carefully.

Those who have been on this forum for some time now, would be inclined to think that this "bias" is a little closer to an "obsession".

Hmm... just to cause mischief...

If you took a toy gun that looked like a real gun and came up to some bloke and aimed it at his head and said "Hey, ugly - you really shouldna walked this way... I had an appointment in Samara - but it looks like it ended up here... now, before I blow your head off... any last words to tell your loved ones?"

CLICK - rod pops out and sign unfolds saying "BANG"

Person keels over from too much adrenilin and has a myocardial infarction.

Jester is sentenced to Second Degree Murder

--------

WHAT! A TRAVESTY (Cri$$) - HOW DARE THAT GUY KEEEEEEEL OVER.

-------

Spectator dragged up on stage and head put in a chopping block.... ZOOM... head is ok.. but fellow wee'd his pants... heck, he made a #2 as well... and cried... hmmm.... well... now he demands damages in $ etc,

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WHAT! A TRAVESTY (Cri$$).... WHY DIDN'T HE TAKE IMMODIUM AHEAD OF TIME?


--------

A strolling mentalist uses PW, Magnum Wallet, and other great items to convice (in this case, he is male, a spec is female) plus psychological techniques that the woman was destined for him... and that he knows her well - in fact a little cold and warm reading, some callback techniques and so on, she is totally engaged... then takes her back to his place for some alternative magic sex practices, films her and throws it on Youtube. She ends up pregnant and fired from work.

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WHAT! A TRAVESTY (Cri$$).... SHE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN ALL MAGIC AND MENTALISM IF FAKE... SHE CLEARLY DESERVED TO BE MENTALLY MANIPULATED BY THE FELLOW!!!

---------

Etc.



Here is the scoop - if you ain't real, then prepare to live with the fact that someday you might be exposed....

If you do an effect, realize you are responsible for DOING THE EFFECT and its CONSEQUENCES... within reason (i.e. if 1000 member audience you do a torn and restored newspaper, and 999 see you as a performer and 1 things you are the antichrist, well, likely that spec might have the majority of the problem in that situation)....

Heck, it gets to this - everything we do has impact... moral, ethics, law, justice etc tries to catagorize them into levels of responsibility... but anyone who thinks they can do anything and not be responsible for something they actually did... well, hello to denial.

IMHO.


The above is all false. Ignore it. Ignore it. It ain't real. I take no responsibilty for my post - so, do not comment on it. It is not me - someone made me type it.... really.... don't you believe me....

Not because they tell us.

If they blatantly told us - this is fake - it would lessen our ability to suspend disbelief for their performance.

They don't need to tell us, as the context of their performance is clear.

The context of mentalism as theater isn't always clear.

With wrestling, as with Mentalism, to come out and say, "This is all fake" isn't the only way to go about establishing that context.

- entity

I woould suggest that it is unlikely that everyone in the audience beleived he had those powers. It is possible that a few would. I saw part of a film being shot. In a doorway two people stood talking. Surrounding them were about two hundred people all of whom had something to do, all of them working to make that shot 'right'. It is not uncommon for audience members to attribute the effect of that shot to the actors.
james1a

As this has reared its head - a thought just occured to me, why not just say in your opening gambit "And may I remind you all, this is purely mind-theatre.."

plus you get in a nod to barrie richardson at the same time...

This is incorrect. It's our job as magicians or mentalists to provide the perfect illusion of a supernatural power, and/or the perfect illusion of a person capable of a supernatural power. There's a difference.

When they leave thinking "Man, that looked like the real deal" then we've done our job. Our job isn't to present a mystery and then immediately undermine it. It's show business. When we're caught up in the moment thinking that the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park are real, the main actor's job isn't to stop running in terror and say "Oh, by the way, just so you know, don't worry. They're CGI. My life's not in danger." before resuming running.

Consider Whit Haydn's dilemma. "There's no such thing as magic / There's no other possible explanation". That's the reaction we're aiming for. We don't take away the belief that there's no such thing as magic. We let it exist, in stark contrast to the illusion that we just presented. That's our gift to them.



Yup. Kayfabe. Whoever thought that pro wrestling would have something so interesting in common with magic and mentalism?

There is an interesting amount of gymnastics in this thread.

The simple ethical point is that we are all responsible for the predictable effects of our actions.

The difficult problem is that it often isn't clear what the consequences of our actions are.

1. Is it a moral problem that these people believe something that is false?
2. Is harm likely to come to these people from these beliefs?
3. What level of likelihood is tolerable?

Frankly, I don't know the answers to these questions.

John

"Have No Mercy"...Michael Ammar....

is'nt this what magicians & mindreaders have been doing for thousands of years...?
"Magic" has been shaping & changing the way muggles think & behaive since the time of the Greeks, & we have to change our ways now because....

This part of your post I would agree with. We allow them to believe the logical, that there's no such thing as magic. We don't ask them to take on a new belief, that there IS (supernatural) magic in reality, because of our performance. We hopefully set a theatrical context for it all. It is not reality. It is theater. The audience says to themselves: I know it can't be real, that this is theater, but I have no explanation for this. It is a deep MYSTERY. It is the sustained MYSTERY that makes what we do unique, not the supernatural connotations.

- entity