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JoeJoe
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Ok, so how'd it go? I think it went good. I will spare you all the gory details, but if you want the full story read the post at my blog. And if you want to see the actual speech as presented to the Council, I have posted the video here.

If you just want to know how it ended, a Council member expressed that they don't want to infringe upon anyone's Constitutional rights and asked the City Attorney to look into my concerns. This is exactly what I expected of them, although I was hopeful that they would have solicited his opinion on the spot at the meeting ... at the same time, I can understand them wanting to give the City Attorney time to verify the case law I provided.

So now everything hinges upon the opinion of one person (the City Attorney). They will value his opinion as much as you would value the advice of your attorney - I intend to mail him a letter. I will continue to check the meeting agendas to keep updated on this. I do expect the ordinance to be amended, I just don't know how much amending they will be willing to do. I don't know if I will be able to make future meetings as I am under contract starting June 2nd, but the City Clerk is most helpful and I will be able to obtain video tapes of the meetings.

-JoeJoe
Amazing JoeJoe on YouTube[url=https://www.youtube.com/user/AmazingJoeJoe]
SeaDawg
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JoeJoe...
As you are more than likely well aware.. I think they are tyring to shut down the "offensive hat lines" ( YOu cheap sob's, if daddy doesn;t give you money he doesn't luv you etc etc etc) Quoting the city ordinance could be some fun.

Good luck and good hats, unsolicited or otherwise.
Crazy people take the psycho-path thru the forest...
JoeJoe
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Quote:
On 2008-05-24 19:34, SeaDawg wrote:
As you are more than likely well aware.. I think they are tyring to shut down the "offensive hat lines" ( YOu cheap sob's, if daddy doesn;t give you money he doesn't luv you etc etc etc) Quoting the city ordinance could be some fun.


Sec 19-173 (9) “a performer may not by word, conduct, or signage solicit money before, during or after the performance”

They are trying to shut down ALL hat lines - you can't mention the tip jar, you can't point to the tip jar, you can't even label it "tip jar". The only way this could be more restrictive is if we had to use "invisible tip jars".

-JoeJoe
Amazing JoeJoe on YouTube[url=https://www.youtube.com/user/AmazingJoeJoe]
nola
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I'm haven't actively street performed in three years -not since I left New Orleans, but how awesome would it be if someone were to put together a book or website or pdf that clearly listed the most important talking points, phrases and case studies in such a way that the average busker could take it and run with it.

just my two cents...I prolly shouldn't have butt in...

nola
ed rhodes
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It's a free forum, your two cents is worth just as much as everyone else's.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
Chance
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I've already given those points here. Not all in one message, but they're here alright.
ed rhodes
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I've read some of Chance's stuff here. You could do worse than to do a search for his name and cut and past what he's posted into one Word document.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
Chance
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Thanks, Ed (er, I think....lol...)
gallagher
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I´ve been sitting back on this one, watching it develope,... thinking about it. JoeJoe, in all honesty I think your speach was a bit `polite´,... kind of pussy-foot.,... doesn´t matter. I think there are only two ways here; `talking´, in this problem, is NOT one of them. You/(we, as buskers) are not on an eye-to-eye with them;... in their opinion.
The two options?: One, fight them. Go out any play. Get arrested. Get fined. Go out the next day. Get arrested. Go out the next day. Invite the Mayor. Invite the press. Take an ad out in the local paper, invite the town. Get arrested. Go out again. Don´t pay the fines. In the end, the city takes YOU to court. They pick up the tab. Stand in front of the Judge, without a laywer, and say; "I´m an artist. I´m expressing my thoughts. The place I `express´ is public, open, free land. The monies donated are an expression of thanks."
,....keep the press in the show.

Option number two: As a busker, our biggest strength is our mobility/flexablity. Use it. Hit and run. Condense your show,.. 10 minutes, 12 minutes,..bang, bang, bang. Hit different spots,... Modern Urban Terrorism (M.U.T.),....busking!!
Flexiblity is our greatest strength,... use it.

gallagher

p.s.: `MUT´ in german translates to `courage´.
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2008-05-27 14:52, Chance wrote:
Thanks, Ed (er, I think....lol...)


Well, it was meant to be positive.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
Paddy
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Milford OH
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Ed, consider yourself turtled!

Sorry, couldn't resist it any longer.
Non Impediti Ratione Cogitationis

I reject your reality & substitute my own

http://www.Scho-Lan.com
JoeJoe
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Quote:
On 2008-05-28 05:28, gallagher wrote:
I´ve been sitting back on this one, watching it develope,... thinking about it. JoeJoe, in all honesty I think your speach was a bit `polite´,... kind of pussy-foot.,... doesn´t matter. I think there are only two ways here; `talking´, in this problem, is NOT one of them. You/(we, as buskers) are not on an eye-to-eye with them;... in their opinion.


The City just passed a law that has the intention of ENCOURAGING street performing. They are saying "hey buskers, we want you to come to Myrtle Beach". They don't know our world, they don't understand it .... so they try to fit our world into their rules. Misguided, yes - but have they done a bad thing? NO! They are trying to ENCOURAGE street performing. We shouldn't discourage them with threats of lawsuits, we should be encouraging them as well.

I went to them as the street performer they are trying to encourage to perform downtown. I wanted them to hear why this legislation wasn't encouraging me to perform downtown. I myself see my speech as a little too harsh towards them, as you really do catch more flies with honey. My only goal was to get them to ask the City Attorney his opinion, which they did.

There is a 3rd option you neglected to mention Gallagher - private property. And for six years now, I've been performing on private property. All the ads for Barefoot Landing in the newspaper and what not say "STREET PERFORMERS" on them. And with all the performers in town working the private pitches, the city is feeling left out and now seeks to encourage street performing themselves - a little diplomacy might yield a lot of results here. After all, they don't want their efforts to fail. They earn 1% of all taxes collected in Myrtle Beach, and if street performers attract tourists they are all for it - that's why this ordinance was passed in the first place!



Quote:
The two options?: One, fight them. Go out any play. Get arrested. Get fined. Go out the next day. Get arrested. Go out the next day. Invite the Mayor. Invite the press. Take an ad out in the local paper, invite the town. Get arrested. Go out again. Don´t pay the fines. In the end, the city takes YOU to court. They pick up the tab. Stand in front of the Judge, without a laywer, and say; "I´m an artist. I´m expressing my thoughts. The place I `express´ is public, open, free land. The monies donated are an expression of thanks."
,....keep the press in the show.


The only newspaper in town is conservative and won't give a rats rear end - you would be lucky to make the police blotter. The City Judge will find you guilty, and you will then need to pay the tab for the appeal, so your really not saving yourself anything at all - in fact, you now get to pay a fine and spend 30 days in jail. Take Chance's advice and read http://www.communityartsadvocates.org/ where they clearly advise you not to get arrested but to file your own complaint against the City - "This way you can determine the issues the court will discuss".

They could throw the book at you - illegal solicitation, loitering, disorderly conduct, resisting arrest ... oh yea sure, you might eventually prevail in the court ... AFTER you have spent 2-5 years in jail waiting on appeals. If you have time like that to spare, then have at it - but it's totally irresponsible for you to come on a public forum and make that recommendation for others.

In all frankness, nobody cares if your civil rights are violated - nobody. What they care about is if THEIR civil rights are being violated. In my speech, I specifically mentioned the amateurs performers - people that are not professionals. Like the lady that came up to me after the meeting to wish me luck - she said her son plays the guitar. She doesn't care if I can't perform downtown, but when she finds out her son can't play the guitar either it suddenly becomes personal to her. If the council realizes that same point, there in no doubt in my mind that the law will be changed.



Quote:
[ Option number two: As a busker, our biggest strength is our mobility/flexablity. Use it. Hit and run. Condense your show,.. 10 minutes, 12 minutes,..bang, bang, bang. Hit different spots,... Modern Urban Terrorism (M.U.T.),....busking!!
Flexiblity is our greatest strength,... use it.


Why? None of that makes any sense. The only suitable location to busk in Myrtle Beach is downtown, the cops ride bikes, golf carts, and even those new people thingies you stand on. The typical response time is under 2 minutes. You don't understand the area - if you do a 10 minute show downtown, at least 1 police officer is going to see you in that time - the place is crawling with cops.

But they really don't give a crap, I've performed downtown before - they have real problems and real issues to deal with, car accidents muggings someone get stabbed or shot. Unless you are causing a problem they don't give a crap. Your not doing anything wrong, there is no reason to hide from them. If you get one of their permits to perform, I doubt you would have any problems. But its not about *IF* they will hassle someone, its about the fact that this ordinance gives them the option to do so.

If you have this mentality that they are the enemy and you are at war with them ... well, you will probably create problems for yourself. They are on foot - you'd be better off getting to know them, getting them to like you. Back in the 50's, Myrtle Beach cops gave out $5 tickets to guys that had their pants to long - it was a big joke and everyone had a good laugh about it - they like to have fun too. There is no need to act like terrorists here.





So to update everyone, I've posted the letter I wrote to the Mayor and the City Attorney on my blog today which highlights the exact portions of the new ordinance I myself have issue with. The Mayor of Myrtle Beach is actually pretty kewl, I like him.

http://joejoeonline.com/blogger/2008/05/......des.html



-JoeJoe
Amazing JoeJoe on YouTube[url=https://www.youtube.com/user/AmazingJoeJoe]
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2008-05-28 14:12, Paddy wrote:
Ed, consider yourself turtled!

Sorry, couldn't resist it any longer.


Oh for cryin' out loud! What'd I do now?
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
gallagher
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Hey JoeJoe, I think the people of the town do and would care. And I think most of them would support you. You just have to figure out how to reach them. Find the right media. Hey, I don´t know your newspaper, but usually they DO have an open ear for these kind of stories. I would approach them. These `little guy against the burocracy´ stories are very appealling,... especially in the U.S., .. don´t pre-judge them,... like the system does you.
Go to the opposing political party of your Mayor. BOTH partys will sit up and notice. Offer a working plan,.. like the San Fransisco or Convent Garden examples.

Go to the businesses. It all comes down to money. They believe every dollar you get, is a dollar they don´t get. Sell them the idea: `free´ entertainment means more folks/families,.. which means more muhla for everyone.

hmmm,.. in all honesty though, I still prefer the `hit and run´ approach.
"Can we live from it!?! Ha! We LIVE because we do it!!"

gallagher
JoeJoe
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Ummm ... I do believe I've already done everything you suggested, so I'm not really sure what the point of your post is. But whatever.

-JoeJoe
Amazing JoeJoe on YouTube[url=https://www.youtube.com/user/AmazingJoeJoe]
ed rhodes
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I don't like the "hit and run" concept. That's catering to the idea that what you're doing is wrong! The problem is (in my opinion) the various city officials see buskers as the equivalent of the guys at the red lights with the dirty rags and squee-gees! Or maybe like the guy that was run off for harassing people on line at the movies if they didn't tip him after he performed for them.

I'm going to risk another turtling and use the term "we."

We are not owed anything by our audience. Yes, the perfect contract would be; You peform and everybody who stops to watch throws something in the hat, but in the end it's their decision to make, verbally harassing them for walking away doesn't help the case. Same goes with those who have to make comments about people who give too little (I've seen those threads here as well) I think these are the things the city council is concerned about in the long run.

But as I've said, I'm not making a living at this so, while I don't agree with it, I can see the point of view of those who feel otherwise.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
gallagher
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Hey Ed, man you got that one!! ,.. right on the money. The `profession´ doesn´t have the best of reputations,... and has earned most of what it denies. Trying to establish it as `clean´,.. legitimatize it with sweet regulation is silly. Play where you can, when you can,.. try showing a bit of respect,.... remain MOBIL. `Sleight of foot´ is our strength.

tip-toeing along,
gallagher
ed rhodes
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No, I still object to the "hit and run" approach.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
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