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Greg Arce Inner circle 6732 Posts |
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On 2008-05-07 19:23, Brane wrote: How true. I forgot about that one, Brane. I have a friend who is the classic magic junky. He can't believe when something earthshaking comes out and he wants to know how it works and then asks if I want to know and I say, "I really don't care. It's not going to change my life one bit if I know or don't know how it works." He kind of looks hurt that I don't care to find out the "secret". And I really don't I guess it's all the years spent in this field that just made me realize effects and secrets will come and go and not one will completely change my life if I know it or not. I have been around groups of magicians when one suddenly wants to spill the beans on an underground secret, but says he shouldn't. I say, "Then don't." The rest of the group is stunned because they expected everyone to be hungry to know the next BIG secret. I don't care. It won't change me or what I read or how I approach most things in life. I think I already know enough secrets to fill up three life times. Greg
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
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Cybersloughter New user 84 Posts |
And a lot of people greatly enjoy the idea of knowing something that other people don't. I have a friend that I can NOT perform in front of because all he cares about is that I have knowledge that he doesn't. That can easily be applied to magic.
We see the hype for a new effect, book, or performer and sometimes we want to be able to say, "Yeah, I can do that" or "Yeah, I know how to do that". I think it is something primal. I'm pretty sure the first tribe to use fire didn't want to share the knowledge with their neighbors, but their neighbors JUMPED at the chance to learn how. And they probably didn't want to share it either... I believe that the tendency to enjoy knowing something that others don't know extends to most areas of our lives too. Just look at the world of espionage, corporate and otherwise. I but effects because I want to learn. I want to support the people who have been creative enough to create. I want to find something that fits "me" better then some of what I already have. I try to create some too, but I know that if I were to JUST try to do what I have thought of, I would be missing out on some truly great things. Imagine life without Corinda's 13 Steps or Bobo's Modern Coin Magic... JLJ
James L. Johnson
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd. - Voltaire ... a rigmarole with a few bits of paper and lots of spiel. That is Mentalism - Corinda |
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Hoff Man Loyal user Ohio 258 Posts |
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On 2008-05-07 19:23, Brane wrote: Aint that the truth. I know Al Cohen could quite literally sell you something you already owned. That was magic on a whole different level though. In recent years I’ve found myself revisiting many of the books I already own. It is there that most of my new magic discoveries are found … or remembered. In truth, I know I won’t live long enough to even scratch the surface of the wealth of knowledge residing on my bookshelf. That’s kind of sobering. I like new things and all. But the clamor of the magic marketplace is becoming less appealing to me as time goes on. Steve |
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Greg Arce Inner circle 6732 Posts |
And to further agree with what Steve just said, Paul Diamond is a brilliant demonstrator. I would buy stuff I already had just because I saw him perform it at the shop. Of course, I was about ten or eleven at the time. I did stop doing that by the time I got to my early teens, but he was good enough to get my money for a few more years just because of his brilliant way of performing a known effect.
greg
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
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todsky Inner circle www.magicstore.ca 2354 Posts |
I've always been somewhat obsessed with magic. The internet has fueled my obsession .
I became a huge magic trick and magic book junkie over the last three years, largely because of online magic stores, and largely because of hype here on the Magic Café! I actually built up a library of over 400 magic books in the last three years (my preciouses...my preciouses...), so it became the perfect storm where my love for books and my love for magic merged into magic book collecting, and the desire has been irresistible. And I do have 90% of my magic tricks lying around in my drawers. I think I need a 13-step program to help me fight this addiction. On the plus side, I now have a great magic library. And 10% of the tricks I bought are a regular part of my act.
Todsky's Magic Shop: over 15,000 tricks, books, DVD s and Card decks. www.magicstore.ca
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Brane Loyal user Virginia, USA 272 Posts |
Curiosity: That old devil, 'How does that work?" seems a bit stronger in magicians, per se. It's also very strong in geniuses. (OBVIOUSLY a connection between those two!) Part of magic, beside that 'drive for power' stuff, is wanting to solve the mystery, the puzzle!
I saw Professor's Nightmare demonstrated long, long (LONG!)ago just before leaving the U.S. in the military. For nearly a full YEAR I drove myself crazy trying to figure out how the hell that could possibly work! I KNEW the ropes weren't gimmicked. When I got back to the states, the very first thing I did was go to Kanter's Magic in Pennsylvania and buy the trick. As with so many magic secrets, the tension release upon learning how it was done was NOT as good as sex, but it was pretty good. Equally good was the fact that I could now drive other people crazy with it! I'm slowly growing more like Greg, in that there are a lot of effects that don't matter to me. (Card packet tricks!) Still, once in a while there is something that I MUST have to see how it works! I sometimes wonder: When there is NO intriguing mystery left, does that mean I'm truly a brain dead geezer? Or have I just gone into politics? brane |
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Greg Arce Inner circle 6732 Posts |
Brane, I don't think you're turning into a brain dead geezer by not caring so much about how any particular effect works. You are realizing that much of the stuff out their is just a rehash of what has already been out there so it's not worth the time caring about it.
I find during the years that I'm more interested in how someone presents something than in the workings of the actual effect. For instance, when Derren does a new show there's tons of "how is that done?" and "where can I buy it?" and "Is it published somewhere?" I don't care how the effect worked... I marveled at how they presented it. I wonder about the time it took to piece that presentation together. Right now I'm more fascinated with how people come up with interesting presentations than with the actual effect itself. Tricks will come and go, but great presentations just fascinate me. Greg
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
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andyfisher Veteran user Norwich, UK 319 Posts |
I agree Greg - it's essential a 'process' vs 'product' debate - the method is so much less important than the framing and delivery. A great painting is defined in part by the way the paint is applied to the canvas and the choice of palette but it is the image created, the mood established and the message conveyed by that image that is paramount. Same with mentalism - the tyrrany of method (craft) can obscure the invitation to focus upon the experience created (art).
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muse Special user Scotland 925 Posts |
Greg your post near the top here has it spot on. In most fields, you have the actual professionals - for them, there may be enjoyment and satisfaction at times in what they do, but it is not the same as the buzz hobbyists (such as myself) get from finding out how something is done, or to be precise, the way someone else does it. Professionals get their satisfaction from having pursued something at the times when they didn't feel like doing it, but kept doing it anyway, because they have to, whether because it is their means of income or their drive in life. They work with and through frustrations to perfect something in a way that the hobbyist doesn't have to.
Which is not to knock us hobbyists - I get huge enjoyment from reading / seeing the amazing things others have done and are still doing, and a great thrill from seeing the things I can do as a result. Thanks to the internet, it is possible to buy sensibly, and get a good feel for the 'classic' techniques and the best new ideas, and have a hugely enjoyable time reading and trying things out. In addition to this providing bread and butter income for magic shops and those who publish decent material, having an educated audience never does any harm. If I watch a magic show, or a mentalist at work, I can certainly appreciate far more just how much work and effort will have gone into making things seems simple and effortless. The great discovery is that the magic never is, and never will be, in the next trick over the horizon, but that it is in all the things you learn incrementally along the way about presentation, timing, direction, etc etc while you have been pursuing the killer tricks. So it's a win-win - you can get the buzz of anticipation about that new purchase you are about to make, then the enjoyment or disappointment of reading it / trying it out, and the longer term knowledge of the specific things that do and don't work for you. And then, if you want to take that to the next level, you have your own building blocks (to coin a phrase) to do so. Or...you just keep reading and buying things you can for the enjoyment. And there's really nothing wrong with that. Mind you, having said that, I did hear that there's this fantastic new trick coming out next week...it might be THE one!!!! |
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Greg Arce Inner circle 6732 Posts |
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On 2008-05-08 04:59, muse wrote: Wait, wait, wait!!! What it is it!? I need to know!!! This could be the thing that completes my life!!!! Aaaaahhh!!! Why hasn't it arrived yet!!!! I can't wait!!!! This will change my entire universe!!! Why are they keeping this from me!!! Don't you know I'm a magician and need to know all the secrets that are out there!!!! This is not fair!!! :rotf: greg
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
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todsky Inner circle www.magicstore.ca 2354 Posts |
I like this thread. When I need to talk myself down from another purchase, I'll just re-read it.
I wonder if there is a book I can buy about buying too much?
Todsky's Magic Shop: over 15,000 tricks, books, DVD s and Card decks. www.magicstore.ca
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CAROLINI Special user 607 Posts |
Many years ago I was told that life is too short to read good books...only read the best. I have applied this to everything in life. If applied to mentalism how much money would we have saved? Yes we want to find the holy grail, but we have to be smart enough to recognize it when we see it. I have seen miracles performed with virtually no "props". Years ago at a magic conventio in Chicago at the Saturday nite final stage show I saw virtually every magical effect performed that the Abbotts catalogue sold. One performer in a tux, acting like a robot, came on stage and had his wrists shackled with a chain and lock. He walked into the audience and let spectators feel the tightness of the chains. He went back to the stage and raised his arms and as he lowered them the chains fell off of his wrists. He then walked off of the stage to the only standing ovation of the convention. The effect was the Siberian Chain Escape that sold for $1.50. I still own it. What does it prove? It proves that it is the presentation not the effect that counts and it always will. We are mentalists which should mean that we are thinkers. Let's prove it by improving on every effect that we own. Throw away the instructions and create your own presentation. Be different and you will have no equal for anyone to compare you to.
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