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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Is Derren Brown Making it in America (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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DJM
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No one could ever last being on TV for 8 years straight if they are not popular and people aren't interested in them. I don't live in the UK but I get the impression Derrren is doing very well, since he gets a new show or special every few months on prime time. I believe his stage shows are also packed each time since he keeps touring all the time. And watching a few videos from his live shows, looks like he gets audience from all ages, not just students or girls.

And if some people don't like being psychologically manipulated then they shouldn't see a mentalism show in the first place.
obijuan
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Americans will never get theater entertainment as a whole. We live in an MTV generation and order food to our front doors. We are so squirrel brained that we can't focus long enough to any of Derren's presentations. just a thought.
IAIN
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I always thought the world's best mentalist was mark lewis?!
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Mugen
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Mr Brown appears on a minority interest channel which very few people watch in comparison with the other mainstream channels available.


You may be right in that very few people watch channel 4, But Channel 4 is largely watch by Young people and students who very few I have met that havent heard of derren or dislike his shows,

unfortunately Channel 4 can produce some awe full shows such as "hollyoaks" and the "worlds X ist X" never mind the endless "top 100 X"

personally I really enjoyed Derren's "Trick of the mind" and "inside your mind" unlike the new "Trick or Treat" series which is a lot darker which gives it the same effect as a corny horror film

I agree that his live shows are fantastic , clever and whitey and thanks to no camera angles or selective editing it allows me to see his magic technique

I think Derren would benefit hugely from a BBC show and it remove the channel 4 "tackyness" from his shows
DJM
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Why some of the posts have been deleted from 2 certain members?
kriskraze
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AftabBakhat, what on earth are you talking about?!?! Do you know what year it is?

Quote:
It is to be noted that he has not received the same accolades and prestige among the public as other noted television mentalists and magicians have in the UK. I am referring to people like David Nixon, Chan Canasta, Al Koran, David Berglas and Paul Daniels.


In the under-30's age group, the only one of the names you mention that is even well known is Paul Daniels, and whilst he has a reasonable amount of respect from the magic community, he's seen as a corny, cheesy, northern little man by the public.

Quote:
Magicians seem to like him more than the public do.

What do you base this on? Was it a survey of the friends that found his show so tedious, but not tedious enough to let you switch channel? Either way, the statement isn't very surprising. A show about astronomy... who likes it more... the general public or astronomers?

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It is HE alone who has helped Derren to achieve the fame he has.

Yes, it's all Michael Vine's doing. I wasn't impressed with him myself.

Quote:
I see that our Israeli friend does not live in the United Kingdom. He will not therefore be aware that Mr Brown appears on a minority interest channel which very few people watch in comparison with the other mainstream channels available. Perhaps that is why nobody has noticed how bad the programme is. The channel in question is only for programmes that are not of great interest to the general population and are usually reserved for programming related to subjects like the history of Barbados caterpillars and the intricacies of Roman architecture. I am sure that Derren's programme stands well out in prominence among programmes even more boring than his.


Channel 4 was founded as a minority interest channel. Ever since the mid-90's it's been rapidly moving away from that position and now is now frequently criticised for losing it's indie positioning and ratings chasing. By no stretch of the imagination can it be described as a channel that 'very few people watch'. It's not the biggest, but it's been know to outrank the biggest on occasion. I think you have it mixed up with BBC4.
Mugen
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On 2008-05-21 18:42, kriskraze wrote:
AftabBakhat, what on earth are you talking about?!?! Do you know what year it is?

Quote:
It is to be noted that he has not received the same accolades and prestige among the public as other noted television mentalists and magicians have in the UK. I am referring to people like David Nixon, Chan Canasta, Al Koran, David Berglas and Paul Daniels.


In the under-30's age group, the only one of the names you mention that is even well known is Paul Daniels, and whilst he has a reasonable amount of respect from the magic community, he's seen as a corny, cheesy, northern little man by the public.

Quote:
Magicians seem to like him more than the public do.

What do you base this on? Was it a survey of the friends that found his show so tedious, but not tedious enough to let you switch channel? Either way, the statement isn't very surprising. A show about astronomy... who likes it more... the general public or astronomers?

Quote:
It is HE alone who has helped Derren to achieve the fame he has.

Yes, it's all Michael Vine's doing. I wasn't impressed with him myself.

Quote:
I see that our Israeli friend does not live in the United Kingdom. He will not therefore be aware that Mr Brown appears on a minority interest channel which very few people watch in comparison with the other mainstream channels available. Perhaps that is why nobody has noticed how bad the programme is. The channel in question is only for programmes that are not of great interest to the general population and are usually reserved for programming related to subjects like the history of Barbados caterpillars and the intricacies of Roman architecture. I am sure that Derren's programme stands well out in prominence among programmes even more boring than his.


Channel 4 was founded as a minority interest channel. Ever since the mid-90's it's been rapidly moving away from that position and now is now frequently criticised for losing it's indie positioning and ratings chasing. By no stretch of the imagination can it be described as a channel that 'very few people watch'. It's not the biggest, but it's been know to outrank the biggest on occasion. I think you have it mixed up with BBC4.


I agree with the younger generation Derren Brown is far more popular then Paul Daniels and they've never heard of David Nixon, Chan Canasta, Al Koran, David Berglas

people (especially males) over the age of 30 rarely watch channel 4 as it has reputation of been geared towards younger people so its understandable that Derren is not known amongst this generation
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On 2008-05-21 18:51, Makoto wrote:
Quote:
I agree with the younger generation Derren Brown is far more popular then Paul Daniels and they've never heard of David Nixon, Chan Canasta, Al Koran, David Berglas

people (especially males) over the age of 30 rarely watch channel 4 as it has reputation of been geared towards younger people so its understandable that Derren is not known amongst this generation

Sorry Makoto but I strongly disagree with both quotes. First of all you're talking about nothing more than age-ism. To give an example I would say that in 30 years time absolutely none of the under 30's (in TV land) will know or care to know DB. And trust me, Berglass could simply never be a lesser mentalist than anyone, ever.
Nixon was a TV magician of above average standard but Canasta was something else. Daniels by the way was and is simply phenomenol and no one will ever match his TV life. That's simply a fact.
And secondly you're way out about channel 4. They tried to gear it that way, that's true, but that's NOT the way it's going due to some great cutting edge programmes.
However at the end of the day I think we all need to realise that, sadly, we're only magicians/mentalists and NOT part of mainstream entertainment. So lets not fight over the crumbs but rather be grateful some of us can have fun and make an actual living from it.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
kriskraze
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There's no point comparing Paul Daniels to Derren Brown. They were as mainstream as they'll be in different times. Paul Daniels did have the greatest TV career of any UK magician and I would venture that it's impossible for anyone in this day and age to match what he achieved. They'd not only have to be as great as he was, but also turn back the hands of time.

By any objective analysis, the earlier years of Channel 4 were geared very much towards younger, more liberal, non-conservative audiences. This alienated a lot of older viewers in it's early years and to an extent this remains a fact. Not for 30 year olds though. In many ways, they saw the station in it's prime. The group I think would be most affected would be 40+.

Channel 4 has become more mainstream and with that has come both unapologetic garbage (there was plenty of indie garbage before) and it's current affairs/documentary stuff. John Snow is a fine man, some of their documentaries are also of a high standard. There is a tendency in recent years however to stray into freakshow television. The woman with 40 children, the man so fat he can't get out of the supermarket, the woman so ill that she turned into a disease...
Mugen
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Quote:
On 2008-05-21 19:03, bobser wrote:
On 2008-05-21 18:51, Makoto wrote:
Quote:
I agree with the younger generation Derren Brown is far more popular then Paul Daniels and they've never heard of David Nixon, Chan Canasta, Al Koran, David Berglas

people (especially males) over the age of 30 rarely watch channel 4 as it has reputation of been geared towards younger people so its understandable that Derren is not known amongst this generation

Sorry Makoto but I strongly disagree with both quotes. First of all you're talking about nothing more than age-ism. To give an example I would say that in 30 years time absolutely none of the under 30's (in TV land) will know or care to know DB. And trust me, Berglass could simply never be a lesser mentalist than anyone, ever.
Nixon was a TV magician of above average standard but Canasta was something else. Daniels by the way was and is simply phenomenol and no one will ever match his TV life. That's simply a fact.
And secondly you're way out about channel 4. They tried to gear it that way, that's true, but that's NOT the way it's going due to some great cutting edge programmes.
However at the end of the day I think we all need to realise that, sadly, we're only magicians/mentalists and NOT part of mainstream entertainment. So lets not fight over the crumbs but rather be grateful some of us can have fun and make an actual living from it.


I wasnt implying that Derren Brown was better then paul daniels , bergless etc I was arguing that the current generation knows of Derren best, I understand your point and in 20 - 30 years time it could be Derren Brown who is unheard of in the younger generation.

Your right in Channel 4 having some cutting edge programs and most people don't only watch certain channels, I know when I watch TV I look for the individual program and not what channel its on. But Channel 4 has only recently become more mainstream after years of it been geared to younger audiences so it still needs to shake its previous reputation with some people.

I think one problem is Derren's shows arnt advertised that much, I only found out about his new series the day before it was shown!
Elputty
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Thanks to the power of youtube and other online video sites I'm doing my best to spread Derren fever amongst my friends. Being a college student almost everyone I've shown him to gets pretty hooked.

Adam
bobser
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Ok Makoto, you make some good points. I simply have no idea why DB doesn't get advertised that much whilst 'Britain's got Talent' is all over the airwaves with that eejit Pierce Arsey Boy!
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Mugen
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whilst 'Britain's got Talent' is all over the airwaves with that eejit Pierce Arsey Boy!


theres something I completely agree with you on, did you know Jeremy Clarkson Punched him!
IAIN
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Any thing popular these days has an element of fragmentation to it...

many years ago - a number 1 record meant several million sales...nowadays a few thousand will get you there on a slow week...

the more choices you have, the more fragmentation occurs - if derren had a show at the same time as the daniels, he'd of been just as, if not more popular than the little fella...we only had 3 channels of tv back then don't forget...

so, when we had a lot more real families, dare I say communities too - we all settled down together to watch as a family...magic being something for all ages to enjoy...

but just cos things don't get watched doesn't mean they're not good - over here, a very under rated show was 13 Stories - shown on bbc3...only 12 episodes made...genius comedy...
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I am an American and have been a fan of Derren Brown's years before his Sci-Fi stint. It all started when I purchased one of his DVDs after reading about him and popping it into my region-free DVD player. Ever since then I was hooked, and I have collected pretty much every broadcast he has put out. I am sure that I am one of very few loyal American Derren Brown fans with no ties to the UK. I also rather regret that fact.

I know that he attempted to get a show on the air in America in 2001. In fact, if I remember correctly, he was in NYC on the day of 9-11 promoting this show! He said that the meeting was ended prematurely and the deal fell through as the premise of someone who could seemingly predict future events would never work in a post 9-11 world. (I think I read this in his Trick of the Mind book, please correct me if my recollection is incorrect).

I have always been saddened by the fact that Brown chose the Sci-Fi channel to break into the U.S. market. First, the Sci-Fi channel is a pretty obscure channel here in America. Yes it has its segment of viewers, but I always felt he deserved a network special. He has not gained any meaningful notoriety and I have never met a single person who knew who he was in America that didn't have some ties to England.

For those of you in the UK who wondered, Brown's American specials were re-edited versions of his Mind Control and Trick of the Mind series. He then came to America and filmed some new segments (which appeared in the UK's Trick of the Mind episodes- For example, Brown's prediction of who would correctly guess the right number of sweets in a jar, and the segment where Brown asked a car salseman from Queens to say three sentences about a car in his head, and tell a lie about the car, and Brown correctly guessed which sentence was a lie even though the guy never spoke aloud) He also refilmed the circled wallet bit in Times Square.

I think America is ready for Derren Brown and his antics. I also believe a well timed network special that spanned a few weeks would be the spark he would need to make it pretty big. While I think a Broadway run would be fantastic, I do think he needs a little more exposure before he could draw the crowds to his shows. Even one special, a new ENTIRELY American filmed show, would allow the studio heads to test the waters for a larger committment, and I know they wouldn't be disapointed.
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Quote:
On 2008-05-21 17:36, obijuan wrote:
Americans will never get theater entertainment as a whole. We live in an MTV generation and order food to our front doors. We are so squirrel brained that we can't focus long enough to any of Derren's presentations. just a thought.


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