Is it just me or is it getting ridiculously hard to keep our secrets well secret?

I have just trawled through the pages of Wikipedia and had to remove a few pages because they contained detailed information on methods.

Is it too much to ask that magicians keep things to themselves?

Obviously this problem is always going to be around thanks to the Internet but it just gets to me.

What does everyone else think?

I agree with you and feel the only way the situation will be for magicians to quit posting on internet forums (yes, I am part of this as well) and to quit suppporting the over-populated magic dealers market.

Things would settle down (at least to a more respectable level) in time.

Just my two cents,
Jason.

Or creating layer upon layer upon layer of deception in a single Routine....I try to do this with most of my Routine/Effect...since there is lots of Magic Hobyist outhere who is familiar with our so called Secrets

and I don't use the same word of what effect that I perform to them, since most of them can "Google" it down and learn/buy the method

I suspect your wikipedia revisions will be reversed. Much as I'd prefer not to see exposure there. It isn't the job of an encyclopedia to keep our secrets. Many groups, organizations and sectors of society have things they'd rather not publicize - but it's not the job of wikipedia to assist in that.

I repeat... I'd personally rather it wasn't there.

But I'm thankful to be able to access wikipedia for a variety of information that other professional groups might rather I wasn't aware of.

Plus, wikipedia saved me from Scientology

I think we are seeing the inevitable - the good stuff is going back to the underground. We're going back to the way it used to be when you had to earn your way to the secrets when all the answers weren't available just for the asking.

Lately, the concept of "underground material" has been overused as sales hype. Once it's on the market it's no longer underground. Once you put your name into the retail arena, you're no longer an underground magician.

So the concept as it applies to this discussion is there is an overwhelming lack of respect for secrets by a large group of people who want as much as they can get without paying for it and want to position themselves as being "in the know" by posting secrets. Some of the creative types have already made the decision to say "enough is enough". They didn't stop creating, they are now just sharing it with a very select group of people and are no longer marketing their material.

One major tactic that really helps is NEVER to call out the original name of an effect. A second good tactic is that if you decide to put up some YouTube movies, never give them their original name (of the effect).

Following up on what Patrick said above, I have one youtube video up, and some time ago someone left a comment that read basically -- "That's (effect name) by (effect creator)". I deleted the moron's comment immediately.

There are some people who simply must show off their knowledge by revealing methods ("Ooh! Look what I know that you don't!") I suspect these folks aren't performers, but collectors of secrets; as they aren't going to use the info they have for a performance, they must find something else to do with it, so they reveal it.

Just my two cents ....

Rory

I think it's very easy as a newcomer to the art of feel ostricised when trying to learn from the good side. You only have to look at the way some people are treated when they come here asking questions that although we may have a problem with - are perfectly understandable questions when coming from a potential new mentalist. It's not surprising that they are driven to exposure sites (of which youtube is one of the biggest these days). They've been 'rejected' (perhaps justifiably) and received no help that they find useful by the legitimate mentalists, so they're happy to help people out that were in their position not so long ago.

Not ideal, but I think the logic is pretty understandable.

On a more beneficial note, I think Rory's story is a lesson to many...

It's essential in this day and age that you don't perform other people's work. If you do, as an artist, you deserve to get called on it. I'd rather it was done in private than youtube however.

You only have to worry about specific names of effects if you are performing those effects unchanged...

It's also why learning techniques is just as important as just learning a set effect...

even when I first started I remember really feeling uncomfortable using an effect straight out of the box...i did to start with, training wheels as it were...but within a six month period they came off...

OOTW for example, the sheer power of that effect, can be adapted to so many other things than playing cards....learning principles and techniques will always open doors to new ways of presenting something...

even a lot of good solid self working card effects can take on a life of their own if you change the premise to photos, maps, and all kinds of other things...

techniques are sleightly (sic) easier to protect - you don't see much mason based "how-to's" thankfully...

a very good example of a underated book that takes something simple and often under used are R.Shane's Automata and Tractore...one or two pieces of simplicity buried under an interesting presentation and hidden technique...

those that can - do; those that can't, expose it...

Thanks for backing me up guys. I really thought someone was going to call me on this and say I was just winging for nothing. I agree with all the comments and try my hardest to adapt any routines I buy to siut my style and character. You have too, otherwise we'd all be carbon copies of each other. BORING!

A question related: why can I find easily every Magic Cafè post with Google?

What happened to Holly's post?

Did I halucinate?

R

You cannot. You can only find those that you "currently" have access to.

Tony

Hey Rory, I deleted it. You didn’t hallucinate. Sorry.


Holly

Hi, Holly --

I thought the Powers That Be had stepped in.

Sorry to see your post go; you disagreed without being disagreeable -- a rare feat around here. Sooo many debates here eventually get ugly, stupid, or both.

And you made a good point.

Yrs,

Rory

That's because James 'horny' keeps giving away the secrets to get back at Gellar.

AJ

I think there's a problem here. People want access to secrets... but don't want anyone else to have access to them.

Here's my solution:
I think if people want to keep secrets they should come up with some of their own. And then keep them. That's the surest way.

That would be great, but then you could never perform that effect anywhere where any other magician could see it. The moment someone sees something that they don't know the workings of they come here and say, "I saw such and such... does anyone know how it works or where I can buy it."

Welcome to the new world of "I want every secret that's out there and I don't care if it belongs to the owner... I want it now!!! And I want it for free!!!"

Greg

Walking the tight rope carries with it the chance of falling. If you want to decrease the chance of falling, get better at walking the tight rope.

Performing mentalist carries with it the chance of people discovering your secrets, to avoid this, get better at mentalism or break the legs of the next person you see discussing your work online.

If it's a young kid just starting out, then fine. That's understandable. But other than that it's quite disappointing to see someone do a pale imitation of an otherwise remarkable routine.