|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3 [Next] | ||||||||||
kriskraze Special user 620 Posts |
I don't consider that young kid an artist though.
The greater concern are those that change a routine a bit and think they're artists. Cover band mentalism |
|||||||||
Chris K Inner circle 2544 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-05-20 14:23, Greg Arce wrote: Sounds like the same world as always to me. |
|||||||||
Hoff Man Loyal user Ohio 258 Posts |
Magicians have always been terrible secret keepers. Was it Burger that said, as a group, only government workers were more likely to spill the beans?
An inability to honor that magician’s code is one thing. But the ever-increasing individual sense of entitlement is just as alarming. Sometimes even reading Magic Café threads is like eavesdropping on crack addicts. Steve |
|||||||||
martin king Elite user 416 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-05-19 13:48, Daniel Nicholls wrote: I'd like to personally thank Mr Nicholls, for the taking some of his own most precious commodity...TIME...to get rid of some of the blatant exposure that's appearing like wild-fire on the internet, nowdays. Congratulations Mr Nicholls and I take my hat off to you sir. Warm regards, Martin |
|||||||||
Greg Arce Inner circle 6732 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-05-20 15:37, Lemniscate wrote: Unfortunately it's a whole lot easier now. Sure when I grew up I would have liked to have known certain things, but that would require investing a lot of time and money and research to hopefully get some clue as to where to go to get it. Now they can just type in Google "nailwriting" and get pages of info. It's gotten way too easy to information and to get and steal other people's ideas. greg
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
|
|||||||||
Looch Inner circle Off by 3362 Posts |
So true Greg
Mentalism Products: https://www.readmymind.co.uk/ Learn Mentalism with the Pro's: https://www.mymind.rocks
|
|||||||||
Malchat Special user The Kingdom of Croiset and Wonder 885 Posts |
I agree that secrets are getting extremely hard to keep.
Because of the power of Google, I don't use recognizable dealer props, no matter how brilliant they are. A good example is the excellent Stainless Steel Blindfold. Type in 'steel blindfold' and you get a page of dealer references... that simply won't do. Even if no one buys it to find out the secret, lay people can still lean back after one search and say to themselves that trickery was involved. I also don't like the mad rush to publish any idea that appears vaguely original without proper research. More due diligence would slow down the number of copycat publications and avoid old gems being exposed by people reinventing the wheel and putting it in an ebook.
“You are what you pretend to be.”
|
|||||||||
Sealegs Inner circle The UK, Portsmouth 2596 Posts |
Well one thing is for sure it's not any fault of me or you.
It's the internets fault for making the access so easily available and it's the dealers fault for making the effects they stock so easily available; and it's the fault of those creators who release their products to make some money; and it's the amateur, hobbyist and part-time professionals that are fault as they buy most of this stuff and create the demand; and it's the professionals' fault for going out and doing shows on a regular basis and getting peole excited and interested about what we do. THEY are all being so unfair on US. Neal
Neal Austin
"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw |
|||||||||
danhazar New user 1 Post |
I´m sorry, but I think you are all exaggerating this "problem". Let´s face it, the majority just don´t want to know how tricks are done, or they just don´t care enough to search the web. And even if they do, they don´t care enough to remember it. So I don´t really see the problem.
The other thing I would like to say is stop treating magic as just secrets. It´s the entertainment part that´s important. It´s my belif that if you can make it entertaining, people will like even if they know how it´s done. And if you still want to fool everyone, then I agree with mesmer, layer upon layer upon layer of deception. |
|||||||||
muse Special user Scotland 925 Posts |
We're all interested in this stuff. But the people who aren't like us magic geeks (and I really use that term that in a respectful, if slightly tongue in cheek, way) basically might like to see bits and pieces, might be turned on temporarily by the whole idea of SECRETS, but let's face it - these things are MUCH more important to our lives than to the VAST majority of the population.
Try it - someone (ie lay person) tells you they know how something is done. Wait a week, then put a bit of spin on it and do the exact same basic trick for them. 99 times out of 100 they won't even recognise it, because they think the 'secret' is the exact thing they saw, not the general concept. I don't think we should stress too much. But I agree with the posters above who said that originality (of mechanics or of presentation) is the antidote. |
|||||||||
Floyd Collins Inner circle Ohio 1633 Posts |
I agree with the posts above danhazar and muse you have hit the nail on the head.
I think the exposure has forced us to be more creative and not just do tricks but perform them, and there is a huge difference. What you see on Youtube for the most part is people just doing tricks and some are done so poorly that you see the method right in the way they are doing the trick. When you see one who is performing the effect there is a huge difference.
No one said it would be easy, or did they?
Check out my all new book "Chicken Scratches" visit my lulu store for more information. http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/thecenterstage http://www.collinscomedymagic.com |
|||||||||
Waters Inner circle 2508 Posts |
Quote:
I totally agree, but this whole problem (in my opinion) started with us. Our microwave magic culture was the primordial soup that began this evolution. What I mean is this. Aside from you, my esteemed friends, how many magicians do you know that have a "library"? How many people actually study and read? To confirm my suspicion, go into (nearly) any local magic shop anywhere. Aside, from the occasional greats, they don't stock books. This amazes me. Even the store owners (often) now say that they just can't sell books. However, enthusiasm sells. What they really mean is that they don't like them. When I was a demonstrator, I simply performed some of the great material (out of a book) and told them I would help them along if they decided to buy it. In this case, books were sold more often that not. My point: It is laughable to be concerned about the information readily available on the net, when many of us, in the magic community, don't even respect the art ourselves. Information is available because the people who have it don't respect it and value it. The problem is in the mirror (of the magic community). I don't often attend club meetings (but I have). When I showed some of the guys something, it amazes me that they don't have the ettiquete, to simply say, "I loved that, would you mind directing me to where that is found?" Instead we live in a video age that demands that we have it now and for free (this is not a tantrum against DVDs). I am just agreeing with Greg that this is simply the current condition of the magic culture, then the culture at large. If we value the techniques of the art, at least we are doing what we can. Sadly, there isn't much defense about being attacked from within from people who just don't care. During a recent informal performance, a guy offered to show me something. He utilized the probability forces of a number and a vegetable. He said he saw it on the net. Beautiful (with sarcasm in place). Sean |
|||||||||
LukeB Loyal user 294 Posts |
Lighten up man.
|
|||||||||
Waters Inner circle 2508 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-07-03 08:23, LukeB wrote: I rest my case. Sean |
|||||||||
enigmatic Regular user France 174 Posts |
Unfortunately, the notion of the secret does not exist any more. Even in the younger generation of magicians, lot of them doesn’t understand this concept (it's what it seems to me). I remember when I was a child and that I accompanied my father who was magician, this concept was respected. It was difficult to reach this universe and the secret was not accessible easily. Like the secret society, it was a true initiatic path which it was necessary to do. Obviously, in this way, the magic was more attractive and at the same time, the magic made the audience fascinated... much more than today.
I remember when I was young, I went to "Mayette Magie Moderne". This Magic shop which is the oldest shop of magic of the world (it opened 200 years ago) and which is at Paris, always exists. If you were not a magician, it was impossible to buy a professionnal book or magic accessories. Nevertheless, the salesman advised you some basic magic trick for start. Then and only then, you could buy books or "professional" accessories. In truth, you have to deserve it. It was one time when the magic still had its letters of nobility. Today, all this does not exist unfortunately any more. All is accessible too easily. It seems to me that the first goal of the young magicians now, is to make a DVD or an e-book! I NEVER buy DVD and e-book, because I know pertinently that these products will be easily available on the Web (and for free unfortunatly). This last point is not for me to get them free (I am absolutely against the hacking, because that wants to say the "death" of the authors in the future). The point is that there is nothing interesting to present routines that anybody can get on the Web. The secret has a value. A DVD or a e-book that everyone can get, does not have any more any value. Even if the people (lay audience) does not remember the secret that they learned (because it forgets quickly), they know that there is behind all this, a trick. The audience can be always surprised or astonished by a magic trick, but the mystery and the fascination which the magic exerted are not any more. Today the sad truth is there: many does not attach any more importance to the notion of the secret. The magic became a trade above all. The soul of the magic, is done increasingly rare... PS : sorry for my bad english. I hope you get the meaning of my post and this one is easily understandable
Real vision is the ability to see the invisible. (Jonathan Swift).
WWW.MAISON-HANTEE.COM WWW.CHASSEURDEFANTOMES.COM |
|||||||||
muse Special user Scotland 925 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-07-03 13:34, enigmatic wrote: Your English is very good, you made your points clearly. But...audiences are just generally much more knowing, sceptical, less easily pleased and, on the plus side, much better educated than was once the case, perhaps when magic shops were in their 'heyday'. I don't mean that everyone can spell, write and add well, but that there is a general level of education across society that didn't exist until recently, due to political will, television, and now the internet. And a small outcome of this is the knowledge amongst most of the population that yes, behind various forms of magic is a trick. And so someone like Derren Brown presents himself as a performer who mixes psychology, misdirection and various other things, rather than saying "I can do magic", because that would seem to many people to be preposterous. I think that in the present time, many very good ideas are put out in the form of books, dvds, downloads or whatever, and don't think it is reasonable or even desirable that today's creators of magic ideas should be bound by what a previous generation did. Respect the past, but enjoy the present and what it has to offer. |
|||||||||
Yellowjacket Regular user Wisconsin 159 Posts |
The time of secrets has passed and we can only blame ourselves.
Do not blame Google. The blame rests on our shoulders. Everyone has and E-book. Why, because it is simple to write and produce. Great way to make a buck by selling secrets. Everyone is anxious to make a name for themselves in the business of magic and mentalsim. The trouble is when you make your secrets available, they are available, to everyone. Read the history books and see how guarded the old masters were. They were in no hurry to write a book. Some even wanted their secrets burned when they died. They understood the power of their secrets was in the performing. Now there are way too many arm chair magicians that churn out books about magic to increase their egos and make money. Not now, everyone wants their E-book out so they can get credit for the 99th version of Confabulation. If you really cared about secrets then you would keep them. Discussions like in forums like the magic café are not where the exposers get their information. It is in the P2P sharing and youtube videos that are many times produced by young magicians that were given too much information without earning it. So instead of practicing and getting good, it is easier to expose and show that kind of power. YellowJacket |
|||||||||
mesmer Inner circle 1186 Posts |
But in the end...we must do our best to perform earth shatering Act....that is cover with layer upon layer of deception...
|
|||||||||
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-05-19 15:12, Rory Raven wrote: A classic example of the moron calling out the method was Criss Angel when he identified "My friend, Banacheck's 'Psychokinetic Touches.'" What a dork.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
|||||||||
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-07-03 06:57, aceofharts wrote: If you aren't already being more creative and not just doing tricks, then why are you performing in the first place? If you aren't at least routining things a bit differently and working out a presentation, then you are just another cookie cutter magician. (I'm using "you" in the generic sense, not in the sense of specifically aceofharts.) Do you want to know the truth? You can't expose the real secrets of magic. You can expose the methods, and that is usually all the magigeeks who google are after anyway. You can expose the mechanics, which is really about the same. But the secrets are in the performance, not in the mechanics. That's what artistry is about. Some of these guys we all worship are taking tricks that were done 100 years ago, and reframing them. They put their personal stamp on them, and they become new and mysterious. In the long run, mentalism boils down to a handful of principles. The rest is just the way you decorate and hide them.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Harder and Harder to keep secrets (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.05 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |