Hello everyone.

I meet up with some magicians where I live and the subject sleight of hand came up and the asked me to show them some of my tricks.

As a mentalist, I can't do any advanced sleight of hand because I never felt that I needed to know any so I told them and their answer was, "Oh yeah, Mentalists. that's where people go when they found out how hard sleight of hand is and want something more easy"

This might be a very silly topic, I'm just wondering whats your thoughts on this? Should a mentalist know sleight of hand?

If you don't need them, don't use them.

To be a great mentalist -- you must also be a great magician.

IMHO...

Derren's devil's picturebook is an example...

Should is a big word. What's important is that you know what you want to achieve for yourself.
As far as I'm concerned, I used to think that "sleights", "mentalism" and "bizarre magic" were things from different worlds. That was, until I met Christian Chelman, who provided some off the cuff, eye-opening moments.
But then again, "should" is a big word. I never liked it, but perhaps I should.

It depends on what you do. But, not learning at least the basics of card, coin, and billet handling will limit the methodology available to you. But, I will add that moves cannot be done sloppily.

Tony

Just sleight of mind.
The Café's Jerome Finley performed an effect for me over the phone combining several principles, where he not only told me what my sign was, but the day on which I was born. No math at all.
A great cold reader can tell you thinks about yourself they seeming have no way of knowing. Nothing is stronger in mentalism.

All that being said, yes, basic sleights are very good to know as a means to and end. But, as Ted K. demonstrates in his "no-prop" nightclub act, not only don't you need sleights; you don't even need props. But basic sleights in cards like a DL and Elmsley count can only help.
Card and coin flourishes, however, are pointless, and indeed, may work against you, as you'll be tempted to employ them, but all they do is make you look like a slick magician, not a mindreader.

Yes I know the basics but I never felt the need to have say, a perfect pass.

I would not say should know, but I will say that having a mastery over certain sleights can be very benefical. There are a number of effects that I do, that have allowed me to fine tune them to my liking & performance venue due to me be able to change them due to my sleight of hand, sleeving & even toppit abilities.

Heck yes, I say.

That answer is for me, though. Just about every single time I perform, I'll do some sort of sleight of hand effect. Not a mentalism effect, but a straight up magic effect. I do this to draw a very visible line between what magicians do and what I do. But I do this without knocking anything. I love sleight of hand magic, which is why I weaved it into my routines.

If you or any other person does not care to learn sleight of hand, don't learn it. It may limit you somewhat, but it may also make you more creative as well, making you think about a different methodology or presentation for an effect you want to perform.

I, however, would suggest picking up a basic book on sleights to occasionally practice an item from. Or not.

It's all up to you, just like most things in your life.

/paul.f

Knowledge is power and working through Bobo, Erdnase, and Tarbell will pay dividends when developing your own effects.

Having said that ...


If one of these guys can secretly write my full name with a NW in front of 500 people, I'll go back to learning a perfect hot shot cut.

Whatever gives you the advantage or skill set to do the things you wish to achieve - then learn it...

I'm glad malchat mentioned a hot shot cut - as that's what I use to reveal the name of the dead person from my living and dead test...







only kidding...

however, that being a case in point, there's a lot to learn from Lennart Green that can be applied to mentalism...

when I read up on some of my favourite mentalists - they are all good card workers too...John Riggs, Derren Brown, Canasta, Berglas, Horwitz...

good enough for them, good enough for me...

how far you go though, is your own personal little journey...

Well I can do a perfect Hot Shot cut but resist the temptation to display it in public.

Some people do better with sleight-of-hand and other do better with setups and props. That's just the way it is. I like Henry Hay's classifications: "Head Magic" & "Hand Magic". Knowlege of both is helpful.

For me I come from a heavy sleight-of-hand background. So I approach things from that angle. I find I trip up more when I am using a prop that does the work. But that is just me.

In the long run sleight-of-hand can step in when other methods fail. When a subtlty fails, or psychology doesn't do as you wish sleights can save the day. Best approach is a combination. And the combinations open many possibilities you didn't have before. More directions you can move things.

So I would suggest a study of sleight-of-hand. The principles will carry across and help you in other areas. The study and theory of angles and misdirection for instance do more than just make certain sleights effective. They teach you about following and controlling an audiences attention.

There is a lot more but that should get the idea across.

I would suggest picking up "The Amatuer Magician's Handbook" by Henry Hay. Pay particular attentions to the first two chapters which have much to offer. Then see his approach to sleights. He covers the basics in many areas and shows how you can combine them with "Head Magic" for added effect. I prefer the older editions without James Randi's name on the cover. Just helps set the mood better when opening it up.

Hope that helps.

Billet handling.

NW

PW

Peeks.

etc.

C'mon the answer is likely yes.

More you learn more you improve your performance...

Sleight of hand, Sleight of mouth, Dancing (gives posture and sense of timmings and it's good for your mind&body), etc etc and go outside and perform a lot to get to know audience reactions, eye contact, audience patterns...
You need to practice with your hands to feel confortable with props... to achieve a natural look (mentalist is a normal guy that has the "abilities/intuiton" to know things in advance) so the practice is already sleight of hand...

Hope it makes sense and it helps,

Cheers

Does a Mentalist have to know/learn SOH? No, I don't believe you do.

J

Every tool you know is beneficial. The great thing about sleight of hand for mentalism is that spectators are not trying to burn your hands during execution thereby making it easier to execute. The important thing to realize,however, is the sleights must be totally hidden. If something even looks like a sleight it will give spectators a hint as to the method and detract from the overall effect. The last thing you want to look like is a flourishy sleight of hand artist.

As Dai Vernon once said when refering to magic is "the art is in hiding the art". I think this is even more important in mentalism.

Steve

Essential sleights for the psychic entertainer - by mr riggs is a very good grounding of lots of useful things to know...

As some of us are intimating, sleight of hand is too broad a term to address the question.

If by sleight of hand you mean "a finger palm", then yes, that would have an obvious application for a billet switch.

If you mean a waterfall shuffle / classic pass / fizbin drop, then no, that is unlikely to help with the effective performance of mentalism.

Would it hurt? No. But then we might as well be asking, "Should mentalists know how to crochet?" Both advanced slights and the ability to crochet a scarf have about as much application to mentalism.

And to Jay Are, remember that Derren recorded the Devil's Picturebook DVDs because he specifically did not intend to perform that card magic ever again. He simply wanted to do the DVDs before he forgot the routines forever.

Devil's Picturebook DVDs?
Wow, mine is on VHS tape. And I had to write to Derren in order to buy it.

Tony,

Cool!

R Gould